Having watched George H. Miller's presentation today, I, as many are left with a few unanswered questions. The first question is, why would anyone want to come to work for LLNL or even apply for a position for at least the next 2-1/2 years, knowing that job security is a thing of the past at any NNSA / DOE facility. Times have clearly changed and with that so will the caliber of employee these facilities acquire. Yes, "the transition is over, but change has just begun". That's a scary thought, and for many it'll bring a lifetime of uncertainties to come.
The talk itself was informative, however it left room for a lot of interpretation which I am sure will result in mounds of misinformation and many rumors to say the least.
Directly after the talk I immediately heard in the hallways a very good question that did not get answered. "There will be a 10% reduction in force at LLNL by Oct 1st, 2008". The people's question is this. Does the 10% reduction for FY-08 includes all of those who have just been given the boot in the last two months, or does it require an additional 10% reduction equal to ~ 730 more "FTE's" to be disposed of by the end of the fiscal year?
In conclusion the employees are left with one guarantee and a conclusive understanding.
Over the next 2 1/2 years we can expect to see a 10% reduction in force each year from now on until the work force is reduced to a manageable number of grateful employees and stabilization of the lab occurs. With that guarantee comes a promise that LLNL will forever have the wrath of a sudden reduction in force, at will, and for any reason that may arise such as the every changing national needs and budgetary fluctuation.
Did anyone notice how the career bar is extremely short and is to take the biggest hit in comparison to other classifications of LLNL employees? I guess FTE are now considered an extreme burden to the new establishment i.e LLNS.
I guess with that we can go back to work, stress free and sleep well. Good night and God bless. Your pay raises will be coming in three months.
All We Ask is 10% a Year
61 comments:
Your pay raises will be coming in three months....if you are still here.
Lab likely to face more layoffs
By Betsy Mason, STAFF WRITER
The Lawrence Livermore lab will likely face more layoffs as it confronts a tighter federal budget, increased expenses and a push to streamline the country's nuclear weapons complex.
Lab director George Miller told employees at an all-hands meeting Thursday morning that he's proposing a workforce reduction plan that could bring as many as 700 more layoffs by the end of the year. The plan, submitted to the National Nuclear Security Administration for approval, would begin with voluntary buyouts, he said.
About 500 workers have already left in a round of layoffs announced in November and executed this month, slimming the total workforce to about 7,300 full-time employees.
"There is approximately another 10 percent we would like to leave the lab," Miller said.
This month's layoffs came from among 2,000 temporary employees and support workers. Future cuts will likely include some of the core scientific and engineering staff.
Though he has requested a voluntary separation program, Miller said more involuntary layoffs would probably be needed.
Lab workers did receive some good news from Miller, who said he had decided to give all employees their annual raises, which had been frozen indefinitely.
He also scored a small victory for employee benefits by getting the NNSA to approve a new list of comparison companies to match benefits with that better represent Bay Area competition. The lab's new contract, which began in October, requires lab benefits to be 105 percent of the going rate among companies.
"I learned a long time ago that even in the midst of budget difficulties and workforce restructuring, it's essential to continue to recruit and retain an exceptional workforce," he said. "That's really hard in the Bay Area. There is a demand for top talent, the cost of living is high, salaries and benefits are very competitive."
The rest of his address focused on how the lab can stay relevant in a changing world and at the same time bring operating costs down
"We are going to be a cost-effective, very efficient lab so that we make the best use of the taxpayers' money," he said.
Miller's plan includes reassessing how the lab handles information technology, though he discredited a rumor that the work would be outsourced. He is also appointing a group of managers to work on increasing efficiency and evaluate nearly 300 suggestions received from employees.
Despite a federal budget that is $100 million less than last year's, Miller said he managed to carve out $10 million to fund work on streamlining the business side of the lab.
Another $10 million will be spent on research he thinks will help position the lab for the future, such as countermeasures for asymmetric warfare, research on climate change and potential mitigation and nuclear energy.
"These are all critical areas of importance to the country, and the state and the globe and to the future of this laboratory," he said.
A big chunk of the federal cuts are coming from a program to design a nuclear warhead to replace aging weapons in the stockpile, a decision Miller called disappointing.
However, the budget includes new money for certifying the old weapons.
Betsy Mason covers science and the national laboratories. Reach her at 925-952-5026 or bmason@bayareanewsgroup.com.
George wasn't hard to understand. We have had 500 leave. We now need another 10%. Hello...roughly 730. You do realize that all Visip and non-voluntary will not help this year's budget but FY09. Where does that leave us for more FY08 cuts? Looking at terms again...
when will it stop...
"Did anyone notice how the career bar is extremely short and is to take the biggest hit in comparison to other classifications of LLNL employees? I guess FTE are now considered an extreme burden to the new establishment i.e LLNS."
OK, doobydew, you're an embarrassment to those of us at the Lab who can read graphs. The reason the IN classification looks like it is the biggest hit is because of the y-axis scale min and max chosen.
When you are grossly inaccurate like this and use these "nefarious clues" to scream how the evil LLNS is going to screw everyone, you completely lose credibility.
"Did anyone notice how the career bar is extremely short and is to take the biggest hit in comparison to other classifications of LLNL employees?"
The career bar is short because the left-hand scale starts at a number much greater than zero. I cannot see it clearly on the posted graphic, but I recall thinking this morning that it was at 5000. Thus one cannot assess the relative proportions just by scanning the size of the color segments.
Good post meeting rumor.
LLNS is changing the serverance package for all employees to one month salary.
So a VSIP is offered. How many will take it? 4% like LANL? I don't think so.
Economy is tanking, recession is likely, markets are in turmoil, smart people are predicting a 10-15year equity malaise like Japan's equity markets suffered when it endured financial system restructuring after it's real estate bubble. In the face of this headwind, few will separate willingly.
The 100-200 that were going to retire last October, but waited to get a gold handshake will make out like a game show winners, but most people, afraid of the future will stay put.
Georgie boy is gonna have a heck of a time voluntarily separating 730. That's like clearing the workforce of everbody 57 and older. There's more than a few curmudgeons there. I'm betting 200 plus or minus.
6 months of pay won't do it,
but hey, wait a minute,....TCP1 is overfunded and there is no other use for the money...!!
We can have a "3+3"!!!!!!!!!!
Betsy,
The next time you see George, offer this...
"Dr. Miller, now that TCP-1 is has a nice 10-20% surplus, with known and fixed liabilities under the very conservative ERISA assumptions, and there are no other legal uses for this surplus, do you plan to offer a 3+3, to effectively use the funds in the taxpayers interest?"
If he answers yes, you will be recieving a Magnum of Dom's finest.
January 17, 2008 8:36 PM
I can say it will ever stop but I can say I walked away from the talk understanding this. We should see a 10% reduction in force every year for the next 2.5 years and that the transition is over but change is not.
What I gathered from this was the following. LLNL's man power level is approximately 7,300 people as of today since we've lost about 500 or more people as of yesterday and probably more. They really never tell you the facts. LLNL is asking that 730 more FTE be gone before the end of FY08, just eight months away.
Sounds just like Los Alamos. I suspect soon we will see a list of what classification they want gone. Again just like Los Alamos.
So here's how I see the end results put very simply without scaling the graph that makes it appear as if one classification is being attacked.
7,300-730 = 6,570 ( 2007 ) FY-08
6,570-650 = 5,913 ( 2008 ) FY-09
5,913-591 = 5,322 ( 2009 ) FY-10
5,322-532 = 4,790 ( 2010 ) FY-11
That brings the LLNL work force down to about 4,790 people just like we have heard many times before. I don't know about you but that's close to a 50% reduction in force from where we started just three months ago.
Did I miss something here? Oh I know. "For those of us that remain we'll embrace the new LLNL". You mean for the chosen few be glad you have a job to pay your mortgage? It will have nothing to do with believing in the mission. It's a job and it allow you to pay your bills.
Regardless the final employee numbers seem correct considering the small scale projects that'll be coming to LLNL and the flexible low burden cost employees that's required for quick turn around projects. I anticipate the standard practice at LLNL will be, bring in who you need to get the project completed on time with the correct skill sets and when the projects done so are those who were employed to do that job. If there's no job to go to, you're simply out the gate. Realistically this is nothing more than standard corporate America practice.
It was the lack of this barbaric ideology I chose to come to work for LLNL decades ago. It's a shame to see it totally destroyed.
January 17, 2008 8:50 PM
"When you are grossly inaccurate like this and use these "nefarious clues" to scream how the evil LLNS is going to screw everyone, you completely lose credibility."
Dooby to have "nefarious clues" (atrociously sinful or villainous)? No, I think dooby heard what all of us heard and what all of us saw when we printed the viewgraph shown. The short bar to the right stood out so much that the term employees were laughing at the FTE's when they saw it. I believe the words from some were, "you better look at that graph again my friend and realize who's going out the gate next." You guys are the unwanted employees now because you are the greatest burden to the system financial. The sooner they get rid of the FTE's the lesser the burden on the retirement system and NNSA promised shortfall pocketbook and of course the less the pension plan will have to pay those individuals for life. My understanding of this is as follows. If an FTE get laid off and is 50 years old or older they can not simply keep their UCRP frozen and go to work for someone else. They have to retire within a specified time frame or they'll lose their medical coverage. Yes that means a very small paycheck that may or may not cover your mortgage payment and a tremendous reduction in projected lifestyle.
Maybe its time for people like you ( January 17, 2008 8:50 PM) stop protecting the status quo and simply admit the facts. What do the words, "I need a 10% reduction in FTE's by the end of FY-08 mean to you" ? Does it mean some other classification to you. He said FTE's, nothing else. He also said, "the transition is over but change is not" for the next 2 - 1/2 years. What does that mean to you? Do you see anything positive so far that's come out of this transition? The fact is this. The only people, if you want to give them that much credit, that are making out during this transition is ULM. They're the untouchables and they're the ones getting fat dumb and happen watching the mayhem and carnage of working class from their ivory tower and exotic new offices from down town Livermore.
George and the 17 pages of ULM know what's going to happen and they know the final numbers. Until the people are informed completely they'll continue to make assumptions based on the information they're given. That's the benefits ULM will reap by being so secretive with the behind the scenes ploys and execution of NNSA / DOE directives.
How can we get the people who got axed to come to the blog and take the poll. It's the only way we'll every know ho got axed and what classification they were. It's obvious ULM is not going to give us the facts.
contrary to what we have been told it would seem that contract labor will be taking a greater role at the lab. 700 fte's gone by the end of the year and yet not one contractor (not counting the few hundred already let go). How long before the fte's start grumbling about the contract labor pool? It's going to get nasty around here.
The fact that TCP-1 is overfunded is good news, but the surplus should remain in the fund and not be used for a buyout. In case you haven't noticed, the market is taking a dive (unless you're invested in gold). The surplus may be gone in less than a year.
5:33am you have general idea of layoffs right, LLNS plans to RIF for the next three years intill the lab has about 4500 employees if you want the exact number look up the complex plan on the NNSA web site. As for the TCP1 pension plan I bet you foools did not read the fine print: if you are laid off or quit your years of service stop at that date and you do not recieve any cola's.
January 18, 2008 5:46 PM you still receive the cola, just like UCRP.
I can see Los Alamos has the ver same problem we do. One worker for every seven ( supervisors / management) type Talk about a waste of the tax payers dollar's.
"We are going to be a cost-effective, very efficient lab so that we make the best use of the taxpayers' money," he said. (Miller)
Reducing costs would require modifications to the 1:7 staff-to-management ratio and a reduction in the number of people in lab support functions. That will never happen.
So, I'm a group leader with 20 direct reports, and a pathetic amount of OPC money ($20K) to manage this group for the entire next year. That 1 to 7 does not apply down at my level, because by not providing support to us, ULM gets a free ride.
"...if you are laid off or quit your years of service stop at that date and you do not recieve any cola's."
I think that you are half correct...
The way UCRP works is that if a person chose to defer retirement after separation (a bad idea because retiree medical coverage is forfeited) s/he would recieve a COLA adjustment for every full year the the employee waited until s/he retired. If s/he decided to start retirement at separation, the cola comes on July 1 after one year of service. I didn't read the fine print, but I think TCP-1 is still that way. UCRP still is for those who froze into it in TCP_2.
The years of service and the highest three-year average salary (before the COLA adjustments mentioned above if any)are fixed at termination date.
"...The surplus may be gone in less than a year..."
If I understand the UCRP retirement system investment strategy correctly, UCRP advisors have invested about 55% in US equity, 15% foreign equity and 30% in bond-like instruments. I believe the bond-like instruments are mostly investment grade and therefore should have little if any exposure to securitized high-risk mortgages troubling the major money center banks.
Thank God for conservative money managers. Go UC!
If this is true, the downside risk to UCRP pension portion being transferred to TCP-1 is manageable. For every one-percent loss in the US equity market (Say SP500 index) the UCRP fund value will drop by 1/2%. Foreign holdings and bonds will drop less and may offset each other.
Using the latest figures that I remember, last year UCRP was overfunded by about 6%. The market went up 12% since then, and is back down to those Spring 07 levels now.
If I understand the planned transfer of LLNL pension assets correctly, 1/2 of the $5B stays with UCRP (fully-funded) plus $75M (about 3%) for good measure. The remainder is transferred into LLNS TCP-1 which becomes fully funded plus 6%, plus the remaining 3% from the UCRP portion. Therefore even as we are in the midst of a market correction, TCP-1 still has a 9% surplus.
And since the claimant pool to TCP-1 is now closed, payouts can be pretty well estimated. So unknown risks are low.
The US equity market would have to fall another 18% to eliminate the surplus and leave TCP-1 "only" fully funded. This seems terrific to me, if I have the facts straight. I'll bet Moody's would rate this fund AAA+ if it was public.
So since I don't think the equity market will correct downward another 20% (and even if we did in the short-term, it will recorrect over the long term that this pension exists), LLNL can apply 3-4% of the fund surplus to "encourage" another 300-500 to depart with a "3+3".
This strategic management decision, to use surplus in the TCP-1 system reduce staff to lower yearly operational costs in overheads, achieve operational efficiencies, reduce the marching army costs and at the same time, preserving the morale, youthful vigor and productivity of the remaining workforce would be a masterstroke, worthy of Captain Kirk.
It is the kind of out of the box thinking that George asked for when he asked for innovative solutions.
I should get a raise. But I'll settle for the 3+3.
"I should get a raise. But I'll settle for the 3+3."
If there was a 3 and 3 I guess tcp2 folks would get...what? The rif will be targeted. Since 3 and 3 has no meaning with regards to tcp2 participants it would effectively remove 60% of the workforce from participation. That is why it will never happen.
1:52PM - How could we ever hope for a 3+3 when we don't even work for UC any longer? We all terminated our service with them on 10/1/07.
1:52 PM, under ERISA, I do not think it legal to use TCP-1 monies to fund a buyout for another retirement plan (UCRP/TCP-2). See www.winston.com/siteFiles/publications/ExcessPension.pdf
I think most people eligible for a buyout would be in TCP-2.
Yeah, you've got it right. There will never be any kind of 3+3 or 2+2 or whatever. If they can't offer it to all, they're not going to do it. If they did, they'd be hit with a class action in which I'd be happy to participate.
When will you all get it through your heads that there won't be an incentive? George has said there won't be one and they don't have the money for it. LANL didn't get any. NNSA won't allow it. Period End of story.
There were many people in DC, in Congress and DOE, who thought our benefits were way too good. That, IMHO, was one of the big reasons for the transitions of LANL and LLNL. They will not allow you to benefit in any way, unless, of course, you happen to occupy the upper levels of management. The rest of us, the rank-and-file, are being punished. Don't you get it yet?
(And the severance for being laid off (either voluntarily or involuntarily) is NOT an incentive, although it may be attractive enough to cause some to leave.)
January 19, 2008 4:55 PM
I think everyone's just hopeful. IMHO where LLNL made it's mistake was by not offering all of us a ( 3+3 or a 5+5 ) at the beginning of LANL transition. If they would have done that more than 50% of us would have already been gone and none of these RIF's would have ever had to come about nor would there be the up coming 2 -1/2 years of misery and uncertainty. As you can see they did neither and the answer to that is as simple as it comes. They don't have to and they'll never offer you anything ever again. They have their slave labor camp to chose from and as you can see by Millers speech, "those of us that remain will embrace the changes that have occurred" but only after they've passed the filter test and sieved through a very fine mesh. Shortly after LLNL has acquired their minimal work force numbers most of ULM will retire on their 100% salaries. Their job will have been done. May the hatchet men and women get what they asked for. Those who are left will handle the trivial jobs by use of non career contract employees who'll come and go many times, again at no cost to NNSA. That's the goal of this transition..
Regardless, it's fringing over people. You either at LLNL because you like it or you're here because it's a JOB that allows you to pay your bills. I'll assure you as time goes on the mass majority won't be here for the love of their work. It'll all about "eight for eight and out the gate". What we didn't get done today, we'll do tomorrow. Life is to short to worry about deadlines with no benefits or pension to strive for. We've had that carrot dangled in front of our noses before and you see what they got you. Don't be fooled again
"..they don't have the money for it..."
Reread the 1:52 post with a pencil and a scratch pad in hand. Arithmetic is simple and it works.
Offer it to TCP-1. Get 1/2 the folks required.
January 19, 2008 8:20 PM
I say offer it to TCP-2 people and double dippers too simply because they were forced to either give their money to a non reputable company back by a non binding white paper or secure what little they had with UC who are much better and caution about investing their money and care about the "people" who work for them. B/Rechtel / LLNS could give a rats ass less. They are all about themselves. Big international piece sign to them.
Rumor: The 200 S&E job classes are going to move to a step structure.
Fact: • There is a contract performance measure that requires the Lab to evaluate the 200 series for possible redesign. The Lab is in discussion with NNSA on the details of the requirements of this performance measure. By the end of FY2008, there will be design and implementation of an LLNL compensation program that identifies roles, responsibilities and pay ranges for all LLNL jobs including managers and individual contributors .
Hopes: Lets hope they put all of us on the STEP system and stop the ranking corruption.
Rumor: The AWS program is going to be discontinued/everyone is going to go to 9/ 80s.
Fact: The Lab is identifying ways to provide workplace flexibility while meeting business needs – there are no plans to go to a single approach like everyone is on the same 9/80 schedule.
Hopes: Lets hope they put everyone on a regualar 5 days a week for 40 hour. M-F period no exceptions, except for the 3-8 hour shift work soon to come to NIF for support personnel.
For those of you who'd like to read the George Miller talk given on Jan 17th, 2008 here's what was said. Note text on page 2 in red box.
Page-1 and Page-2
Thanks Jan 20 9:41AM for providing a link to Miller's speech.
He said:
"The Laboratory will need to reduce its overall size by an additional10 percent"
January 20, 2008 12:30 PM
Yes, 10% more this year and from what I heard it will be 10% more every years after this for at least the next 2.5 years and even that may not be enough. I will see if I can strip the audio off of the video and post it for all to hear. Some of you need to get the wax out of your ears and read between the lines. helloooo!
My co worker had his term extened one more year, the letter he recieved showed his job classification had change has this happen to any one else????????
January 20, 2008 11:34 AM
Well, I guess you do not want any conference or training funds, or office supplies.(OPC)
I guess you are happy living in a trailer instead of a building (IGPP).
Perhaps you really do not need any major equipment (IGPE).
I suspect you are not receiving tech base funding or maintaining a major piece of equipment or lab (OPC or SMS).
Obviously not on the heroin (LDRD).
And you do not need your waste basket emptied, your bathroom cleaned, or the lawn mowed (G&A)
And you are not trying to develop a program, manage a program, or grow WFO activities (PMC).
Not a problem; these can all be eliminated. And you thought this was all "...for their perks and lavish Whitehouse life styles" of upper level management.
You are clueless...
Lawrence Livermore Lab Facing
More Layoffs In 2008
LIVERMORE (AP) ? A tighter federal budget and a move to streamline the country's nuclear weapons complex is expected to lead to hundreds of layoffs at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory this year.
During a meeting Thursday, the lab's director told employees he's proposing as many as 700 more layoffs this year.
The job cuts this year would come after about 500 workers left in a round of layoffs announced in November.
Lab director George Miller says the reduction in the work force during the year at the lab would begin with voluntary buyouts, but involuntary layoffs would probably also be necessary.
Oh yet cut more workers but don't dare cut management by 75% ,or, immediately change their taxation without representation on the working class and projects. Gee how can so many Ph.D.'s making almost a $1/2M a year be so fringing stupid? Yes I said fringing STUPID with a capitol "S" The sad part is NNSA / DOE not only paid $79M + for LLNS to manage this place but they hire 40 more overpaid managers to destroy what little of the lab was left with their bozology tactics and misunderstanding of basic finance practices. What IDIOTS.
These people are no better that the clowns we have in the senate and congress.
Find your friggin money someplace else bozo. These taxes should not be considerd as part of a persons overhead or the cost of having a worker on the job or project. GO FIND YOUR FUNDS SOME PLACE ELSE. GOT IT !
Well, I guess you do not want any conference or training funds, or office supplies.(OPC) ( don't need it and never got it )
I guess you are happy living in a trailer instead of a building (IGPP). not problem I do have a fancy off with a secrtary. How manytimes do you plan to pay for the same building and it equipment. BS charges, period
Perhaps you really do not need any major equipment (IGPE). not my problem. It's the projects problem.
I suspect you are not receiving tech base funding or maintaining a major piece of equipment or lab (OPC or SMS). you got it. not my problem. I suggest you get that funding as part of doing the project up front
Obviously not on the heroin (LDRD). Who gives a rats ass about LDRD, its chump change
And you do not need your waste basket emptied, your bathroom cleaned, or the lawn mowed (G&A) My legs are not broke and I can easily empty my own trash can. My ass isn't glue to a desk.
And you are not trying to develop a program, manage a program, or grow WFO activities (PMC). Nope, thats not my problem and as far as I am concerned that's what you get a paycheck to do at no extra cost.
January 21, 2008 8:19 AM
You are absolutely correct. NON of the taxes should show up on the lab pricer as part of the cost to obtain or retain an employee. All an employee should cost the program is their wages and benefits. The rest of these taxes need to come from a pot of money the director has just for the reasons stated in the definition of each acronym.
Again, by applying these taxes to each employee you are making it appears as if manpower realistically cost this much per person and as you can see they do not.
So once again your lame excuse for cutting people has been proven to be bogus to say the least and an act of stupidity.
No wonder non one want to bring any work to LLNL. I wouldn't touch you guys with a 100 foot pole.
Have fund trying to get some work in that place. I think your in for a long hall of unemployment.
"...The surplus may be gone in less than a year..."
Or, until the end of this week, if the markets keep going the way they are.
I'd like to suggest that everyone go to the LLNL home page and look at the new 2008 Lab Pricer and see how much you and many others now cost the program. Compare the 2007 to the 2008 and see how much this transition cost the tax payer and your program. You'll be simply amazed of all the taxes and overhead there is. Note there are two account numbers for each person. Add them together to see your total burden. At first it makes you feel guilty until you realize none of these charges are your fault.
Now say to yourself, self, if was running LLNL finances and manpower would I tax the people and programs for these items or would I retain these funds in separate accounts elsewhere so when people ask how much does each person cost the program you could truthfully tell them. They only cost they hourly wage plus benefits. How simply can it get.
I agree. The lab pricer is an accurate means of keeping track of how much a facility cost to run but once that information is known it should only be used to determine what funds are needed where and should not show up as an employee burden. People flat don't cost that much. Overhead on the other hand is the leading cause for LLNL demise. I let you figure out where the major cost are.
Talk about double standards:
Miller wage = ~$410K a year. < 8000 people
President of the USA wage = $300K
>200M people
I see equal responsibility levels here. Don't you. What do they say. Equal pay for equal work. I wonder what calculator they were using. Must be some fuzzy math of a Scientologist.
Now say to yourself, self, if was running LLNL finances and manpower would I tax the people and programs for these items or would I retain these funds in separate accounts elsewhere so when people ask how much does each person cost the program you could truthfully tell them. They only cost they hourly wage plus benefits. How simply can it get.
January 22, 2008 5:45 PM
And where, exactly, do these other funds come from?
January 23, 2008 8:20 AM
Okay you have the tool to tell you how much it cost to keep each program and each building up and functional. Now earn your money and go to DOE and NNSA and lay out a fancy spreadsheet that shows them the exact cost for those items. Each one of the taxations will now have its own pot of money to draw from. When someone or something is needed for that particular project or building, you draw from that pot. When the money is gone, so is the project. Gee, it's like handling your check book or credit card with a limit on the balance and a finite limit on the card. How fringing hard can that be. Lifes easy. Oh and BTW I don't make $410K a year to figure that out. If the lab can't be run in a simplistic balanced budget manner, then yes I agree tear it down and start all over again.
As far as I can tell the accounting practices on the Lab pricer throw up enough fluff to confuse even the best accountant and I'll bet anyone from a private company would be asking, who in the heck runs a business this way. If this is any indication of how the nation budget is handles no wonder the country in deep kahuna.
Must be some fuzzy math of a Scientologist.
It is clear you know nothing of Scientology.You,like many others on this blog enjoy making things up. Cheap entertainment I guess.
January 23, 2008 8:20 AM
So you suggest we dump the tax and pay for overhead using a mystery account held by the NNSA.Where does the NNSA get the money to do that? Congress I would assume or the NNSA might just tax money allocated before it reaches LLNL? Eventually overhead WILL be paid for. There is no free lunch contrary to your assertion.
So why hasn't this plan of yours been implemented? Perhaps George et.al. are just plain stupid. More likely your plan has zero merit.
"Now earn your money and go to DOE and NNSA and lay out a fancy spreadsheet that shows them the exact cost for those items. Each one of the taxations will now have its own pot of money to draw from."
I am impressed by how some people on the blog understand how money is allocated and flows to the lab. I have failed to find the DOE/NNSA office that is constituted to pay: electricity bills, office supplies, taxes to local government, etc... If you can, please pull up the DOE/NNSA org chart and point me in the right direction.
January 24, 2008 8:04 AM
You missed the point clown. We, the workers of LLNL don't give a rats butt where you get the money to pay _your_ bills but for sure it shouldn't show up as a cost of each employee to the institution. Do you under stand that bozo.
Find your money by some other means and stop BSing the system and making it appear as if each employee from the top down cost 2 to 4 times their annual income and in some cases more.
That's known as BS bookkeeping the system. Any fool on the outside world wouldn't send you a day with the WFO. For sure I wouldn't. About the time I saw all the charges and cost per employee I'd take my WFO to Mexico or China. No wonder the US is no longer an industrial nation. YOU'VE driven them away. Oh and by the way. You will not cure this problem by dumpling thousands of blue collar employees and hiring more managers to do a high school education job..
For anyone who is wondering what these people are talking about my I suggest that you go to the LLNL homepage and look for the Lab Pricer. Get the 2007 and 2008 version and save it. Put your employee number in the correct cell and hit return or the check mark. Your name and everything will appear. Scroll down to the bottom and see what you cost the lab / program. Add the two column together and then divide that number by your salary to see the exuberant cost. You will have no doubt why LLNL can't get anyone to come there and have you people do work for them. Is there any doubt why LLNL can't bring work into its facility? I'll let you be the judge. Put yourself in the customers place and look at the cost based on how many employees you will need to get the job done. How many millions of dollar would you need. Then put layer after layer of management / supervision fees that'll tap the account too and I hope your last name Kennedy.
January 24, 2008 3:04 PM
I see you are cross-posting on both this blog and the LANL one, since we now have the same useless, bloated, nonsense diatribes here as they have.
"since we now have the same useless, bloated, nonsense diatribes here as they have."
January 24, 2008 4:54 PM
What did you expect. Same company, same misfortune. Are the people of LLNL supposed to be grateful for what's happened? They didn't ask for this transition and they didn't cause these problem. But remember, "those of us that remain will cherish the changes that have occurred". They failed to mention and be happy they have a job because they are the chosen few seen fit and compliant. It would be very nice for LLNS to lay out the projects that we are going to be working on and the skill sets needed and in the meantime ask people if anyone would be interested in working on those projects. That may inspire some enthusiasm. As it stands now very few employees see a future and many wonder if they'll be a tomorrow. It's dismal to say the least.
January 24, 2008 6:45 PM
Appreciate your comment. Your reply addresses a different issue then the entropy that proceeded it.
Does anyone know the numbers of people that have left the lab since 10/1/07 of their own choice? I know normal attrition numbers are up significantly. To what extent will that have on the vsp? 1%?
-GotOuttaDodge
Jan. 24 3:15 PM
When you go to Lab Pricer, you also need to watch which cost account has been entered into the spreadsheet you're using. If it is an indirect account, the costs will be much lower than a real program account. The taxes from the program account fund the people who are "suppport."
We need some people to do payroll and keep the lights on. We do not need all the managers, especially the new ones and their spouses.
January 24, 2008 3:04 PM
Such an eloquent communicator and financial wizard! If you’re not already in our CFO organization, you should be – perhaps running it. Of course, I’m not sure why you’re still here since you must already be financially secure having personally benefited from your vast accounting knowledge. You should probably be a little more gentle with those of us who aren’t as fortunate.
There are some clowns posting here, but it isn’t January 24, 2008 8:04 AM.
The previous and current contracts have many layers of requirements (Orders, manuals, standards, federal and state laws, etc.). Meeting these requirements and proving compliance speaks to much of the “overhead” burden, outside of facility costs. Other than the infamous 39 (which by the way includes the equally infamous spouses), how much growth has taken place in QA, Finance, ES&H, etc. since October 1? How many people added to overhead does it take to raise the FTE cost from say, $350K to $400K? Just wondering.
Signed: another clown
"How many people added to overhead does it take to raise the FTE cost from say, $350K to $400K? Just wondering."
Signed: another clown
I don't think the debate is about that topic at all. It's about how stupid it is to tax the people for cost a that are not relative to their actual cost.
As it has been said many times before. Each employee ONLY cost their wages and benefits. The rest of the burdens shown on the lab pricer is garbage and it's the accountants job to figure out how to get these burdens some place else. No one on the face of this earth is going to send work to LLNL as long as the accountants continue to show _irrelevant burdens_ as a realistic cost of any particular employee. I know of no known business that runs effectively and efficiently using these bogus tactics. If they did they'd all be out of business, just as LLNL is well on its way.
"As it has been said many times before. Each employee ONLY cost their wages and benefits. The rest of the burdens shown on the lab pricer is garbage and it's the accountants job to figure out how to get these burdens some place else."
And the cost of your hotel room is merely related to the wage/benefit of the person checking you in? What nonsense. Wait, I forgot the wage/benefits of the maids. Oops, forgot the electricity bill. You mean they heat hot water when I'm not there? I shouldn't be paying for that. Oh, the place is not 100% full, how *do* they cover those empty rooms.
January 28, 2008 6:51 AM
In the real world those are called a 'loss" and the company eats it not the people who work there nor is it reflected in their salary or shown as the cost of doing business or the cost of each employee to the company. Oh I forgot. LLNL doesn't make a profit. They're what the real world calls parasites or welfare recipients. You people need a rude awakening. I'm so glad that finally after fifty years of milking that tit you're about to have your eyes opened.
Again your little issues as stated about on how to account for heat, electricity, empty buildings, taxes, street repairs, the bosses toilet, his secretaries, his expensive lunches, car allowance, housing allowance, etc, etc, etc , IS YOUR PROBLEM , not the employees and by all means again. I will assure you that no where in the real world do this show up as a tax against the employee. It comes out of the companies pocket and if they can not manage those expenses properly, they are out of business. Opps, here we go again. LLNL doesn't make a damn thing that marketable.
So much for your BS accounting process used by the Lab Pricer to show the actual cost of each employee. I see many are viewing the crappy system in the same manner.
One More Outside Opinion
Get off the pot LLNL and start obtaining your funds from another source for the appropriate reason. Only an idiot would employee people at this price and overhead cost. Oh and BTW, that doesn't mean fire more people so you can plead that you need more overpaid managers to correct your screw-ups any high school child with a little common sense could reconcile. There's got to be somebody in your organization that has the balls to bring this up to NNSA / DOE and show them the stupidity in conjunction with a workable solution. If not, none of you are worth your salary.
"Get off the pot LLNL and start obtaining your funds from another source for the appropriate reason."
And that source would be what? You keep repeating this refrain without a thoughtful suggestion.
February 2, 2008 11:11 AM
Not MY problem nor is it the problem of any employee at LLNL. That's what they pay ULM the big bucks for, but as you can see they're not earning their money and have no balls to confront those that could allocate the funds by another means. I think they call these people annelids.
February 2, 2008 11:11 AM
Thank you for confirming that the mantra: "best and brightest" is a hollow slogan.
Sorry 11:11 AM, this was intended for the thoughtful reply from 3:06 PM
Thank you for confirming that the mantra: "best and brightest" is a hollow slogan.
February 4, 2008 10:42 AM
No its more like those in ULM who refuse to seek the funds from another source instead of showing it on the LAB Pricers have what's known as _Cranium Rectun Inversion_. If it were possible I'd post a piture so that you'd get a clue. CRI, is a slogan that applies to whomever is doing LLNL accounting and tax burden collection on the worker backs..
It's the wrong answer and the wrong way to do business dilbert !
LP Accounting
Post a Comment