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Friday, May 29, 2020
Profit and diversity
Have the LANL and LLNL for-profit contractors, improved or undermined diversity efforts compared to UC/LANL or UC/LLNL?
27 comments:
Anonymous
said...
The better question is.
Have the LANL and LLNL for-profit contractors, improved or undermined capabilities compared to UC/LANL or UC/LLNL?
The past LANS and current LLNS for-profit contractors, have undermined mission capabilities compared to UC/LANL and UC/LLNL, and all at a higher annual fee. The DOE has made similar for-profit contractor assessments.
"I agree. It's good to have goals. Follow through however, can be problematic."
Diversity awareness talking points can be very beneficial to appointed diversity "poster children" (those that are too often literally bought off), or essentially have guaranteed career long diversity "tickets to the show".
In contrast, diversity awareness can be very devastating to ones career to those who openly and sincerely speak out about diversity career inequalities. This is how the game is played. Understand the rules and proceed accordingly.
I think that the FINANCIAL incentive in meeting a bonus threshold has to be greater in the new contract for profit than it was for UC. There was certainly efforts being made back in the day. I worked with a lady who had been hired by Engineering and then transferred to Computations. She relayed the story that EE was highly displeased. There were three things to note: 1. She was a female. 2: She was Asian. 3: By marriage she had a Spanish surname. She told me that when she transferred EE lost three minority points in one fell swoop. And just a note, she was a very capable programmer.
I saw the Expanding Horizons outreach begin and that was certainly before the contract change. More minorities were hiring onto the lab than what were present when I started. That is probably a combination of more minorities getting into the scientific and technical fields and the lab having an incentive to hire them, both before and after the contract change.
For the most part in my career I saw qualified folks from the minority population. I saw a few idiots, but I can say the same for male WASP folks as well. I saw phony public relations stuff both before and after the contract change.
5/30/2020 8:42 AM asked had the greater emphasis on diversity had a negative effect on the mission. That is a question that can't be answered unless you can show that more qualified people were passed over in many instances.
"5/30/2020 8:42 AM asked had the greater emphasis on diversity had a negative effect on the mission. That is a question that can't be answered unless you can show that more qualified people were passed over in many instances.
5/31/2020 6:26 PM"
That was not my point. The point I was making that the for profit model was probably bad for everything, diversity included. I would imagine that UC would actually be much better for diversity since the universities are generally more progressive and motived by other things beyond profit, things like excellence, diversity, science and so on. Bechtel is motived by money and influence.
If NNSA placed an monetary incentive in the contract for a diversity benchmark, you can bet that Bechtel would jump for it. For Bechtel, the bottom line was the driving force.
Now it could be argued that Bechtel would make a claim of doing diversity while not doing anything but the portion of Livermore I worked at was thankfully not being driven by Bechtel and I saw diversity fully in practice. The idea of profit vs non-profit being the difference is not the driving force, it is WHO is running the show. Do remember that UC is part of the for profit organization and supposedly THEY are the majority "owner" in the new regime. If you want to make the claim that UC lost its moral compass when they became part of the for profit team, so be it. In my experience at Livermore I didn't see that problem. I did see UC let Bechtel ruin Plant Engineering but that was regardless of race, creed or color. They foul everything.
"Diversity is mandatory, except for diversity of opinion, which is forbidden." Very truthful!!! Diversity at LANL is apparent. Advance opportunities are biased and many are given to those who can be manageable. Because yes if your opinion differs from that of your manager you become a persona non-grata. Requirements for promotions are applied in full to some while to others management ignores the requirements. The same goes for employment is mostly based on who do you know not what do you know and that goes either for regular employees and students.
"Diversity at LANL is apparent. Advance opportunities are biased and many are given to those who can be manageable. Because yes if your opinion differs from that of your manager you become a persona non-grata. Requirements for promotions are applied in full to some while to others management ignores the requirements. The same goes for employment is mostly based on who do you know not what do you know and that goes either for regular employees and students.
6/05/2020 7:55 AM"
This is correct but in many ways the system is fair. There are a clear set of rules for success. These rules are not the same rules found in most other places in the real world but they are our rules and they are applied fairly. Anyone can have the same opinion as their managers, anyone can go out and get to know the right people. These are the skills you need and hone. If you are dumb enough to think technical skills are useful that is on you. The opportunity to succeed is up to you. If you don't like the rules you can leave and find some other place more to your licking.
Some real loser comments here. Technical skills are not useful? Why would you even consider working somewhere where that is the case? Where is your self-respect to work for such an employer? Oh, wait, it is well-respected and jobs are sought after? I wonder why?
7:55 and 11:32 are into something. In the not too distant past, one's chances for "success" were tied directly to one's ability to interface with the old boy's network. More recently one's success is tied explicitly to one's ability to interface with members of the old girl's club too. While neither ability has any technical merit, it is what passes for diversity in Los Alamos these days.
"Advance opportunities are biased and many are given to those who can be manageable."
Unfortunately true. So basically, the technical management of the labs are run by the white ex-military and their hand picked obedient diversity managers that are "manageable". That about sums it up.
"Unfortunately true. So basically, the technical management of the labs are run by the white ex-military and their hand picked obedient diversity managers that are "manageable". That about sums it up.
6/06/2020 5:15 PM"
Way overthinking it. Look all these problems could be solved by testing or by really getting ready for actual test. In these cases technical merit will be what matters or what will matter going forward after the test is done. They will want people how can do the jobs regardless of being buddies, sex, age, who you like to date, region, creed, hair color, and so on. At least in principle. Right now there is simply no way to measure whether the labs are healthy or not. We could try scientific productivity but you get cries that we are not a university and scientists suck. We could try other things like competency tests but people will freak out about that saying that test suck or something. There are many things we could try but someone will find problem with all of it. LANL/LLNL is just another fat deep state organization that hides in darkness. Such organizations played a role at some point like during the cold war but now what do they do other than exist to protect themselves? Unless a system is changed in some way it decays.
Striving for diversity by skin color and genitalia is not for the good of nuclear weapons production and maintenance. It is for political and social purpose.
People here used to argue technical merit of ideas, as would befit a blog dedicated to the nation's most critical nuclear science and weapons development laboratories. Now it is about political correctness. What is happening to this country and it's most patriotic and valued scientists?
Can we have a blog rule that if it isn't relevant to the LLNL/LANL or NNSA mission, it gets deleted?
"Striving for diversity by skin color and genitalia is not for the good of nuclear weapons production and maintenance. It is for political and social purpose."
This person expresses their opinions as a "Karen" (although likely a white male), that just can't accept other "skin color and genitalia" beyond his own clear past and current privileges.
" What is happening to this country and it's most patriotic and valued scientists?"
I sense that you are not comfortable with what you are seeing. This is a good thing because you see your unearned power slipping way as society moves to become fair and equitable. You do not want to compete in world where your unearned privilege no longer exists. You have thought yourself as patriotic supporting a system of oppression not just for the people of the United States but the world as a whole. How many nations has the US used as pawns to enforce its power? The world is changing and changing for the better, sure the quality of life for the few like you will decline and you will a small taste of how much of the world feels. On the bright side the world will slowly improve. Like or not part of NNSA mission has always been about keeping power for certain groups so yes all these posts that you find so distributing are relevant, now more than ever.
"Hey, I earned my power and privilege by very long and hard work."
False your privilege was unearned and given to you at birth. From this unearned privilege you than attained power. You power was not earned and that is why you abuse it.
You never had to worry about being killed unjustly by the police, you never had to be followed when you went into a store, you never had to defend yourself against crime because you knew that calling the police was not option for you. You have no idea what life is like for people without privilege. It is time for you to sit down and shut up and listen. Other people also have worked had but are denied any benefit, others simply give up early knowing that there is no point.
This person expresses their opinions as a "Karen" (although likely a white male), that just can't accept other "skin color and genitalia" beyond his own clear past and current privileges.
6/07/2020 6:28 PM
No I just don't think it is relevant to nuclear weapons production. Its really that simple.
Yes, all of these self hating whites should donate all possessions yet they wont. They type on their $1000 phones while sitting in their $80k cars outside of their organic grocery stores miles away from the poor and differently pigmented people they claim to support. If you want to make an actual difference, treat people better, yourself.
27 comments:
The better question is.
Have the LANL and LLNL for-profit contractors, improved or undermined capabilities compared to UC/LANL or UC/LLNL?
The past LANS and current LLNS for-profit contractors, have undermined mission capabilities compared to UC/LANL and UC/LLNL, and all at a higher annual fee. The DOE has made similar for-profit contractor assessments.
"Have the LANL and LLNL for-profit contractors, improved or undermined diversity efforts compared to UC/LANL or UC/LLNL?"
Diversity is our strength!!!
"Diversity is our strength!!!"
I agree. It's good to have goals. Follow through however, can be problematic.
Diversity is mandatory, except for diversity of opinion, which is forbidden.
"I agree. It's good to have goals. Follow through however, can be problematic."
Diversity awareness talking points can be very beneficial to appointed diversity "poster children" (those that are too often literally bought off), or essentially have guaranteed career long diversity "tickets to the show".
In contrast, diversity awareness can be very devastating to ones career to those who openly and sincerely speak out about diversity career inequalities. This is how the game is played. Understand the rules and proceed accordingly.
I think that the FINANCIAL incentive in meeting a bonus threshold has to be greater in the new contract for profit than it was for UC. There was certainly efforts being made back in the day. I worked with a lady who had been hired by Engineering and then transferred to Computations. She relayed the story that EE was highly displeased. There were three things to note: 1. She was a female. 2: She was Asian. 3: By marriage she had a Spanish surname. She told me that when she transferred EE lost three minority points in one fell swoop. And just a note, she was a very capable programmer.
I saw the Expanding Horizons outreach begin and that was certainly before the contract change. More minorities were hiring onto the lab than what were present when I started. That is probably a combination of more minorities getting into the scientific and technical fields and the lab having an incentive to hire them, both before and after the contract change.
For the most part in my career I saw qualified folks from the minority population. I saw a few idiots, but I can say the same for male WASP folks as well. I saw phony public relations stuff both before and after the contract change.
5/30/2020 8:42 AM asked had the greater emphasis on diversity had a negative effect on the mission. That is a question that can't be answered unless you can show that more qualified people were passed over in many instances.
I agree. It's good to have goals. Follow through however, can be problematic.
5/31/2020 4:10 PM
A bit of understatement.
"5/30/2020 8:42 AM asked had the greater emphasis on diversity had a negative effect on the mission. That is a question that can't be answered unless you can show that more qualified people were passed over in many instances.
5/31/2020 6:26 PM"
That was not my point. The point I was making that the for profit model was probably bad for everything, diversity included. I would imagine that UC would actually be much better for diversity since the universities are generally more progressive and motived by other things beyond profit, things like excellence, diversity, science and so on. Bechtel is motived by money and influence.
If NNSA placed an monetary incentive in the contract for a diversity benchmark, you can bet that Bechtel would jump for it. For Bechtel, the bottom line was the driving force.
Now it could be argued that Bechtel would make a claim of doing diversity while not doing anything but the portion of Livermore I worked at was thankfully not being driven by Bechtel and I saw diversity fully in practice. The idea of profit vs non-profit being the difference is not the driving force, it is WHO is running the show. Do remember that UC is part of the for profit organization and supposedly THEY are the majority "owner" in the new regime. If you want to make the claim that UC lost its moral compass when they became part of the for profit team, so be it. In my experience at Livermore I didn't see that problem. I did see UC let Bechtel ruin Plant Engineering but that was regardless of race, creed or color. They foul everything.
Some people are still fixated on Bechtel, either through PTSD or daddy worship.
"Diversity is mandatory, except for diversity of opinion, which is forbidden."
Very truthful!!!
Diversity at LANL is apparent. Advance opportunities are biased and many are given
to those who can be manageable. Because yes if your opinion differs from that of your
manager you become a persona non-grata. Requirements for promotions are applied in full
to some while to others management ignores the requirements. The same goes for employment
is mostly based on who do you know not what do you know and that goes either for
regular employees and students.
"Diversity at LANL is apparent. Advance opportunities are biased and many are given
to those who can be manageable. Because yes if your opinion differs from that of your
manager you become a persona non-grata. Requirements for promotions are applied in full
to some while to others management ignores the requirements. The same goes for employment
is mostly based on who do you know not what do you know and that goes either for
regular employees and students.
6/05/2020 7:55 AM"
This is correct but in many ways the system is fair. There are a clear set of rules for success. These rules are not the same rules found in most other places in the real world but they are our rules and they are applied fairly. Anyone can have the same opinion as their managers, anyone can go out and get to know the right people. These are the skills you need and hone. If you are dumb enough to think technical skills are useful that is on you. The opportunity to succeed is up to you. If you don't like the rules you can leave and find some other place more to your licking.
Some real loser comments here. Technical skills are not useful? Why would you even consider working somewhere where that is the case? Where is your self-respect to work for such an employer? Oh, wait, it is well-respected and jobs are sought after? I wonder why?
7:55 and 11:32 are into something. In the not too distant past, one's chances for "success" were tied directly to one's ability to interface with the old boy's network. More recently one's success is tied explicitly to one's ability to interface with members of the old girl's club too. While neither ability has any technical merit, it is what passes for diversity in Los Alamos these days.
...you can leave and find some other place more to your licking.
6/05/2020 11:32 AM
Interesting slip of the thumb.
"Advance opportunities are biased and many are given
to those who can be manageable."
Unfortunately true. So basically, the technical management of the labs are run by the white ex-military and their hand picked obedient diversity managers that are "manageable". That about sums it up.
"Unfortunately true. So basically, the technical management of the labs are run by the white ex-military and their hand picked obedient diversity managers that are "manageable". That about sums it up.
6/06/2020 5:15 PM"
Way overthinking it. Look all these problems could be solved by testing or by really getting ready for actual test. In these cases technical merit will be what matters or what will matter going forward after the test is done. They will want people how can do the jobs regardless of being buddies, sex, age, who you like to date, region, creed, hair color, and so on. At least in principle. Right now there is simply no way to measure whether the labs are healthy or not. We could try scientific productivity but you get cries that we are not a university and scientists suck. We could try other things like competency tests but people will freak out about that saying that test suck or something. There are many things we could try but someone will find problem with all of it. LANL/LLNL is just another fat deep state organization that hides in darkness. Such organizations played a role at some point like during the cold war but now what do they do other than exist to protect themselves? Unless a system is changed in some way it decays.
Striving for diversity by skin color and genitalia is not for the good of nuclear weapons production and maintenance. It is for political and social purpose.
People here used to argue technical merit of ideas, as would befit a blog dedicated to the nation's most critical nuclear science and weapons development laboratories. Now it is about political correctness. What is happening to this country and it's most patriotic and valued scientists?
Can we have a blog rule that if it isn't relevant to the LLNL/LANL or NNSA mission, it gets deleted?
"Striving for diversity by skin color and genitalia is not for the good of nuclear weapons production and maintenance. It is for political and social purpose."
This person expresses their opinions as a "Karen" (although likely a white male), that just can't accept other "skin color and genitalia" beyond his own clear past and current privileges.
" What is happening to this country and it's most patriotic and valued scientists?"
I sense that you are not comfortable with what you are seeing. This is a good thing because you see your unearned power slipping way as society moves to become fair and equitable. You do not want to compete in world where your unearned privilege no longer exists. You have thought yourself as patriotic supporting a system of oppression not just for the people of the United States but the world as a whole. How many nations has the US used as pawns to enforce its power? The world is changing and changing for the better, sure the quality of life for the few like you will decline and you will a small taste of how much of the world feels. On the bright side the world will slowly improve. Like or not part of NNSA mission has always been about keeping power for certain groups so yes all these posts that you find so distributing are relevant, now more than ever.
6/07/2020 6:28 PM and 6/07/2020 8:20 PM
Hey, I earned my power and privilege by very long and hard work. What else is hard work for? What did you do to earn what you want?
"Hey, I earned my power and privilege by very long and hard work."
False your privilege was unearned and given to you at birth. From this unearned privilege you than attained power. You power was not earned and that is why you abuse it.
You never had to worry about being killed unjustly by the police, you never had to be followed when you went into a store, you never had to defend yourself against crime because you knew that calling the police was not option for you. You have no idea what life is like for people without privilege. It is time for you to sit down and shut up and listen. Other people also have worked had but are denied any benefit, others simply give up early knowing that there is no point.
This person expresses their opinions as a "Karen" (although likely a white male), that just can't accept other "skin color and genitalia" beyond his own clear past and current privileges.
6/07/2020 6:28 PM
No I just don't think it is relevant to nuclear weapons production. Its really that simple.
Lots of denouncing of "white privilege" here by white people. Never hear it from black people. Wonder why?
Yes, all of these self hating whites should donate all possessions yet they wont. They type on their $1000 phones while sitting in their $80k cars outside of their organic grocery stores miles away from the poor and differently pigmented people they claim to support. If you want to make an actual difference, treat people better, yourself.
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