Anonymous would like to talk about " Joe the plumber" a.k.a. "Joe the liar".
McCain hitched his wagon to this knuckle-dragger without checking his background (see Palin). McCain is toast. Honestly, if he can't get this one right then what would ever convince anyone to vote for the guy? Well, I suppose "Joe the liar" might vote for him.
29 comments:
The Truth about Joe...
Joe The Plumber: Unlicensed, Owes Back Taxes
Analysis From Politico: McCain Lacked Vetting Process, Discovers Plumber No Ordinary Joe
HOLLAND, Ohio (CBS 5 / AP / Politico)
Republican John McCain said Thursday that 'Joe the Plumber,' whose questions about Democrat Barack Obama's tax policy became a centerpiece of the final presidential debate, was the real winner of the televised forum.
"Joe's the man!" McCain proclaimed before a crowd of 1,000 people at a rally in Downingtown, Pennsylvania.
But it turns out that Joe the Plumber's story sprang a few leaks. McCain hung his debate performance on the Holland, Ohio plumber who campaign aides said they never vetted.
The man who was held up by McCain as the typical, hard-working American taxpayer isn't really a licensed plumber and owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes. He also makes less than $250,000 a year, which means he would receive a tax cut if Obama were elected president.
"Joe," whose real name is Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, 34, was cited by McCain in Wednesday evening's debate as an example of someone who wants to buy the company he works for in nearby Toledo — now a two-person operation — but would be hurt by Obama's tax plans.
The burly, bald man acknowledged Thursday that he doesn't have a plumber's license, but claimed he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work.
However, Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in the city of Toledo and Lucas County — and he's not, according to David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection and Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations. The two agencies handle plumber licenses in the area.
And then there is the matter of his taxes.
Wurzelbacher owes the state of Ohio $1,182.98 in personal income tax, according to Lucas County Court of Common Pleas records.
In January 2007, Ohio's Department of Taxation filed a claim on his property until he pays the debt, according to the court records. The lien remains active.
Wurzelbacher, who is registered as a Republican and voted in the GOP primary in March according to the the county elections board, previously wouldn't say who would get his vote. But Thursday, the self-described conservative said he was a McCain backer.
'Joe the Plumber' also expressed surprise that his name was mentioned so many times — almost two dozen — in the debate.
On Thursday night's "Late Show with David Letterman," McCain said he had not yet spoken to Wurzelbacher, and apologized for the press attention he had received.
"Joe, if you're watching, I'm sorry," McCain said.
The saga began in Toledo on Sunday, when Wurzelbacher told Obama that he was preparing to buy the plumbing company, which earns more than $250,000 a year, and said: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"
Wurzelbacher told reporters Thursday that he doesn't have a good plan put together on how he would buy Newell Plumbing and Heating.
He said the business consists of owner Al Newell and him. Wurzelbacher said he's worked there for six years and that the two have talked about his taking it over at some point.
"There's a lot I've got to learn," he said.
Obama told Wurzelbacher Sunday that under his proposal taxes on any revenue from $250,000 on down would stay the same, but that amounts above that level would be subject to a 39 percent tax, instead of the current 36 percent rate.
McCain sought to cast Obama's plan as one would stop entrepreneurs such as Wurzelbacher from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing. The McCain campaign even launched an ad featuring the exchange between Wurzelbacher and Obama.
On Thursday in New Hampshire, Obama said McCain was misleading voters by proposing tax plans that favor the rich while criticizing an Obama tax plan that would raise taxes only on people making more than $250,000 a year, just 5 percent of all taxpayers.
"He's trying to suggest that a plumber is the guy he's fighting for," Obama said. "How many plumbers do you know that are making a quarter-million dollars a year?"
It appeared Obama was right.
Wurzelbacher told reporters Thursday that Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now, because he doesn't make anywhere near $250,000 a year - although he hopes to some day - and acknowledged at his current pay rate, "I'd be receiving his tax cuts."
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I'm voting McCain no matter what. I don't want Osama in office. Not now , not ever.
Let's see, we find out that (A) he's not a plumber, or at least has no license to legally be doing this line of work, and (B) he doesn't pay his taxes.
He lies, he ignores regulations and doesn't pay his tax bill. Yep, I guess that means he's a solid Republican!
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? Obama told the guy he wants to 'spread the wealth around'. McCain is usng that to paint Obama as the Socialist that he is.
'Joe' whatever isn't applying for a Q clearance. Get over it.
The bottom line is this. The democrats and the press will protect their type regardless of cost. A prime example of this is Bill Clinton who gets "head" in the Whitehouse. Guess who said that was perfectly acceptable and guess who says a wife Hillary Clinton should condone such activity. Also the same type of people that allow wattabees in the senate who swore in on the Koran not the Bible.That right. the same people that protect their own kind of socialist in the media 24-7. aka "Democrats". These actions tell me all I need to know about these people or and their sheeply followers.
The top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth (= assets - liabilities), and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%.
So Obama may have a point... I bet most LLNL employees are in the 80% group that is fighting over the leftover 16% of US wealth.
The bottom line is really this... Republicans and mainstream right wing media (aka Fox News) are the actual Un-American ones as they continuously spew vitriolic vile towards Americans who happen to look or think different than them. These are the people that cherry pick the US Constitution to suit their needs, and want to pack the US Supreme Court to rewind our laws back to the era when separate and unequal treatment of citizens was legal. Not just Roe v. Wade, but probably also Loving v. Virginia and void the Civil Liberties Act of 1988...
Wake up America, the right wing of the Republican party wants to control every aspect of how you live your life - where you can live, who you can marry, what religion to practice, force you to worship their version of the Bible, decide which civil rights and civil liberties you can have... in the Republican world order, the only freedom of choice is that which passes their test of righteous. Republicans do not care about individuals or those in need, they only care for the freedom to make as much money and accumulate as much individual wealth as possible. They have no sense of the terms "Common Good" or "Shared Burden." Republicans see the country as 300 million individuals all out for themselves, instead of 300 million citizens working as one people who are looking out for the nation as a whole and toward its future.
Republicans = Its about Me as an individual, its about me being left alone, and its about my present comforts.
Democrats = Its about Us as a country, its about us working together to make it better, and its about our shared tomorrow.
What is the point in swearing on the Bible if that's not the book you believe in? A Muslim person swearing on the Bible is about as useful as a Christian person swearing on the Koran.
October 17, 2008 7:43 PM Typical Republican group think.
October 17, 2008 7:43 PM You missed it. McCain is using this guy to paint Obama as a socialist. Instead we now find, as per "Joe", that McCain would rather you quit paying taxes, fabricate any lie and resort to any sort of fraud if it suits you. We call that anarchy. So now we know McCain is nothing more than an anarchist. Anarchist or Socialist...I'll take the socialist.
By the way. I have been listening to weeks of McCain hot air about Obama and his "terrorist pal".Live by the sword, die by the sword. You should get over it.McCain made his bed and now it's time for him to lie down.
October 18, 2008 7:19 AM
Last time I checked Bill Clinton has been out of office for nearly 8 years. Who cares besides you what happened 8 years ago.
This is 2008 and we are stuck with a president with the lowest approval rating in history and his dementia ravaged wanna-be waiting in the wings to finish off what he started. You need to get a grip.
October 17, 2008 9:25 PM
I think it's just the opposite. Remember your BOY That's B as in BOY, O as in onionhead and Y as in YoYo, "Bill Clinton" and his worthless WIFE who stood by his side while he was cheating on her. yes the two goons who ran the country for eight years only to make the rich, richer. Remember al the lies about his drug us, miltary service, getting head on the job isn't sex, cheating on your wife is okay and then allowing it was acceptable. Now there's a true democrat for you. McCain in 2008
Republican politicians campaign on a policy of fear and division. They fear those that are different and they fear the future, as they want to take the country back to the past. Senator McCain and his republican party are the ones we as a nation need to fear. I don't want to go through life fearing things.
Joe vs Colin... Who's opinion do you trust?
Powell endorses Obama for president
Republican ex-secretary of state calls Democrat ‘transformational figure’
NBC News
Sun., Oct. 19, 2008
WASHINGTON - Former Secretary of State Colin Powell endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., for president on Sunday, criticizing his own Republican Party for what he called its narrow focus on irrelevant personal attacks over a serious approach to challenges he called unprecedented.
Powell, who for many years was considered the most likely candidate to become the first African-American president, said in an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he was not supporting Obama because of his race. He said he had watched both Obama and his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, for many months and thought “either one of them would be a good president.”
But he said McCain’s choices in the last few weeks — especially his selection of Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his vice presidential running mate — had raised questions in his mind about McCain’s judgment.
“I don’t believe [Palin] is ready to be president of the United States,” Powell said flatly. By contrast, Obama’s running mate, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, “is ready to be president on day one.”
Powell also said he was “troubled” by Republican personal attacks on Obama, especially false intimations that Obama was Muslim and Republicans’ recent focus on Obama’s alleged connections to William Ayers, the founder of the radical ’60 Weather Underground.
Stressing that Obama was a lifelong Christian, Powell denounced Republican tactics that he said were insulting not only to to Obama but also to Muslims.
“The really right answer is what if he is?” Powell said, praising the contributions of millions of Muslim citizens to American society.
“I look at these kind of approaches to the campaign, and they trouble me,” Powell said. “Over the last seven weeks, the approach of the Republican Party has become narrower and narrower.”
In an interview Sunday on Fox News, McCain said he was not surprised by the announcement.
“I’ve always admired and respected General Powell,” said McCain, who cited the endorsements he had received from former Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger, Alexander Haig, James Baker and Lawrence Eagleburger. “We have a respectful disagreement.”
Bolstering Obama’s international credentials
Powell, a retired Army general who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under the first President Bush before becoming secretary of state in the current administration, is one of the most highly decorated military officers of modern times and an admired figure in both parties. The Obama campaign is likely to cite the endorsement as an answer to critics and undecided voters who have questioned the foreign policy credential of Obama, a first-term senator whose national experience amounts to four years in the Senate.
Powell said a major part of his decision to turn his back on his own party was his conclusion that Obama was the better option to repair frayed U.S. relations with allies overseas.
“This is the time for outreach,” Powell said, saying the next president would have to “reach out and show the world there is a new administration that is willing to reach out.”
In particular, he said, he welcomed Obama’s president to “talk to people we haven’t talked to,” a reference to Obama’s controversial pledge to hold talks with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
“I think that [Obama] has a definite way of doing business that will serve us well,” Powell said.
Won’t campaign for Obama
As recently as a month ago, Powell said that electing an African-American president would be “electrifying” for the world but that he remained undecided. The unsteadiness of the Republican campaign in recent weeks, especially on the economic crisis, went a long way toward pushing him off the fence, he said.
“It isn’t easy for me to disappoint Senator McCain as I have this morning,” said Powell, who emphasized that he would not campaign for Obama because of his admiration for McCain’s long record of service in the military and in Congress.
But as he examined both campaigns in the last few weeks, he said, he became “concerned” that “in the case of Mr. McCain, he was a little unsure how to deal with the economic problems.”
“Every day, there was a different approach,” he said, adding that he also “would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court.”
McCain would be a good president, Powell said, but Obama is “a transformational figure” who would be an “exceptional” leader.
“I truly believe that at this point in Amserica’s history we need a president who will not just continue ... basically the policies we have followed in recent years,” he said. “We need a president with transformational qualities.”
For that reason, he said, “I will be voting for Barack Obama.”
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And now we get to watch the republican attack dogs and McCain supporters go after General Powell...
Joe the plumber is a prime example of a non-informed voter. He votes republican because he is a sheeple who believes the republicans will protect us from the evil terrorists. He would be much better off voting for a democrat who would up hold the words written in the bill of rights that protect our civil liberties. As stated earlier in this thread, he would also benefit from Obama's proposed *middle* *class* TAX CUTS. Wake up America! Enough is enough!
October 19, 2008 7:07 AM
You don't know much about John McCain. Do a little research and you will discover he was cheating on and then finally dumped his wife to marry some other bimbo after she had been disfigured in an accident. He is such a nice man.
You had better cinch up on your belt because, in a few weeks, the GOP is going to get the worst shellacking in it's history.
John McCain has never disclosed exactly why he got divorced, but he admitted to having extramarital affairs. His most notable affair was with Cindy Hensley McCain, who became his second wife. Though some have said that he and his first wife were separated at the time of his affair with Cindy Hensley.
His first wife, Carol McCain, was a swimsuit model who was disfigured in an automobile accident. McCain blames the collapse of his first marriage on "my own selfishness and immaturity" and has called it "my greatest moral failing."
That's your BOY...a real republican!
October 19, 2008 9:07 AM
“The really right answer is what if he is?” Powell said, praising the contributions of millions of Muslim citizens to American society."
Yes this really is the right answer!
Unfortunately, if Obama is a Muslim then he is a liar about his Christianity, as is permitted under Islamic Law in discourse with infidels. On the other hand, being a lifelong Christian does not square with his youth in Indonesia, unless he was a closet Christian without the strength of conviction to stand up for his faith.
Neither is acceptable to me.
CNN Fact Check.........
October 18, 2008
Fact check: Obama said he would 'spread his wealth around'?
The Statement
Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain, during a speech on October 16 outside Philadelphia, recounted the story of "Joe the Plumber," a man who held a conversation with Democratic candidate Sen. Barack Obama and who became the surprise star of the candidates' October 15 debate when McCain gave an account of the story. McCain said the man told Obama, "'Look, I've been working all my life — 10, 12 hours. I want to buy the business I'm in, but you're going to raise my taxes.' And you know what Senator Obama had to say to Joe? He wanted to spread his wealth around. He wanted to spread his wealth around."
The Facts
Sen. Obama had been campaigning outside Toledo, Ohio, on October 12 when he met Joe Wurzelbacher, 34, who works for Newell Plumbing & Heating Co., a small firm in the Toledo area. "I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes $250-270-80 thousand a year," Wurzelbacher said. "Your new tax plan is going to tax m more, isn't it?"
Obama explained his tax plan during the roughly five-minute exchange — telling Wurzelbacher that the tax rate on the portion of his income that was more than $250,000 would be increased from 36 percent to 39 percent. But he also mentioned that his plan includes a 50 percent small-business tax credit for health care and a proposal to eliminate the capital-gains tax for small businesses that increase in value. Obama said his tax plan, which he said focuses on bigger breaks for people making lower incomes, would be good for the economy. "If you've got a plumbing business, you're going to be better off if you've got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you," he said. "Right now, everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody. And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
Wurzelbacher said, "The reason I ask you about the American Dream, I mean I've worked hard. I'm a plumber. I work 10, 12 hours a day and I'm buying this company and I'm going to continue working that way. … I'm getting taxed more and more while fulfilling the American Dream."
In an interview with CNN on Thursday, October 16, Wurzelbacher said he had misunderstood Obama's plan and that the company he wants to buy makes well less than $250,000 a year — which Obama says means his taxes would not be increased.
The Verdict:
Misleading. McCain's remark was an oversimplification of a five-minute-long conversation. Obama replied in great detail about his tax plan, and the "spread the wealth" remark was one small part of the conversation.
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October 19, 2008
Fact check: Would Obama raise taxes on some to cover tax credits for others?
The Statement:
At a campaign stop Sunday, October 19, in Westerville, Ohio, Sen. John McCain cited Sen. Barack Obama's promise to "cut income taxes for 95 percent of Americans. You might ask, 'How do you cut income taxes for 95 percent of Americans when more than 40 percent pay no federal income taxes right now?' … The government will write them all checks called a 'tax credit,' and the Treasury will have to cover those checks by taxing other people."
The Facts
Obama, on his Web site, promises to "cut taxes for 95 percent of working families." He and his campaign officials have, at times, inaccurately described his plan as a tax cut for "95 percent of Americans." His economic policy adviser Jason Furman told CNN that the figure applies to working people and leaves out retirees.
Obama is offering a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500. Furman says the credit will go to 95 percent of American workers. It is designed to offset payroll taxes, which are different from federal income taxes. Payroll taxes include the fees the government takes out of paychecks to supply funding to Social Security and Medicare. Approximately 40 percent of Americans do not pay federal income taxes, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. But many of those people do pay payroll taxes. Those who pay federal income taxes would have the tax credit come out of what they owe the government; those who don't pay federal income taxes would receive a check in the mail.
Obama, on his Web site, describes the tax credit as a means to "cut income taxes … for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay." So, when McCain refers to Obama as promising to "cut income taxes" through those tax credits, he is on firm ground.
Furman told CNN that funding for the tax credit would come in part from the tax increases Obama is calling on couples making at least $250,000 and individuals making at least $200,000. So, when McCain says the tax credits given to people who don't pay income taxes would be funded by "taxing other people," that is accurate.
McCain has tax credits at the center of one of his economic proposals as well. His health care plan calls for taxing the amount that Americans spend on employer-provided health insurance, while offering a $5,000 tax credit for families, and $2,500 for individuals. McCain has said he will fund those credits in part through the tax collected on for employer-provided health insurance. His campaign has said it would also cover some of the costs through cost-cutting in the Medicare program.
McCain has not called for raising taxes on some people in order to pay for his health care tax credits for others. According to the Tax Policy Center, McCain is offering across-the-board tax cuts — though, for lower- and middle-income Americans, his tax cuts would be smaller than Obama's. Also according to the center, McCain's health care plan would be a net tax cut for virtually all Americans through 2013, and for the middle class through 2018, which is as far as the center projected.
But the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's health care plan would effectively increase taxes for a sliver of Americans — the wealthiest 1 percent — by 2013, and for more Americans by 2018. If that estimate is accurate, McCain would effectively be raising taxes on some in order to carry out a program that includes tax credits.
The Verdict:
True. Obama is promising tax credits to 95 percent of American workers to offset payroll taxes. The credits would be funded in part by tax hikes on individuals making $200,000 or families making $250,000.
Obama, Yes, just like a good socialist / Marxist Note his ideaology
The Verdict:
Misleading. McCain's remark was an oversimplification of a five-minute-long conversation. ( smart and has common sense )
Obama replied in great detail about his tax plan, and the "spread the wealth" remark was one small part of the conversation. ( jerk and all for his boys )
Muslim soldier fought for America and his faith
By Nancy A. Youssef, McClatchy Newspapers
Tue Oct 21, 7:25 pm ET
WASHINGTON — "Joe the Plumber" was only one of two Americans injected into the presidential election this past week. The other was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan , whom former Secretary of State Colin Powell invoked in his endorsement Sunday of Barack Obama .
Khan was a 20-year-old soldier from Manahawkin, N.J. , who wanted to enlist in the Army from the time he was 10. He was an all-American boy who visited Disney World after he completed his training at Fort Benning, Ga. , and made his comrades in Iraq watch "Saving Private Ryan" every week.
He was also a Muslim who joined the military, his father said, in part to show his countrymen that not all Muslims are terrorists.
"He was an American soldier first," said his father, Feroze Khan . "But he also looked at fighting in this war as fighting for his faith. He was fighting radicalism."
Khan was killed by an improvised explosive device in August 2007 along with four other soldiers and an Iraqi interpreter while searching a house in Baqouba, Iraq.
He's one of four Muslims who served in Iraq or Afghanistan and are buried in Arlington National Cemetery , where 512 troops from those wars now rest.
About 3,700 of the U.S. military's 1.4 million troops are Muslims, according to Defense Department estimates.
Khan, a child of immigrant parents from Trinidad , was 14 when the Sept. 11 attacks happened. Feroze Khan said he remembered his son watching in stunned silence: "I could tell that inside a lot of things were going through his head."
Three years later, Feroze honored his son's request and allowed him to enlist him in the Army . "I told him: 'You are going to the Army .' I never said there is a war going on in a Muslim country. I didn't want him to get any ideas that he was fighting (against) his religion."
Feroze kept his fears for his son's safety to himself.
His son was assigned to the Stryker Brigade Combat Team out of Fort Lewis, Wash. , deployed to Iraq in 2006 and fought on Baghdad's Haifa Street , a Sunni insurgent stronghold.
His tour was extended as part of the surge of additional U.S. forces to Iraq , and he called or messaged home often until he was deployed to restive Diyala province, where he was under fire too often to contact home regularly.
But he prayed every day, his father said.
One Sunday morning, his son sent an instant message: "Hey Dad. Are you there?" Feroze Khan was out, and he saw the message when he returned.
A few hours later, his ex-wife called. Soldiers had knocked on her door in Maryland . Their only child was dead.
A few minutes later, soldiers appeared at Khan's door. "I guess it helped that I knew beforehand," he said. "There are no words to describe it."
Kareem Khan was a month from finishing his tour when he was killed.
On Sunday, Powell said that Khan's sacrifice and service had swayed him to discuss the way that Muslims have been portrayed in the presidential campaign, and the contention that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is a Muslim.
Obama "is a Christian," Powell said. "He has always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, 'What if he is?' Is there something wrong with being Muslim in this country? The answer is no. That is not America." He added: "I am troubled that within the (Republican) Party we have these kinds of expressions" suggesting that Obama is a Muslim, and that if he is, he likely associates with terrorists.
Powell said that he felt strongly about the issue after he saw a photo of Khan's tombstone in the New Yorker magazine . In the black-and-white picture, Khan's mother is resting her head on her son's tombstone. On each side of the stone are flowers, and in between is a copy of the Quran. On the face of the tombstone is a crescent and star, indicating that the soldier buried there is a Muslim.
"He was an American," Powell said.
October 20, 2008 9:13 AM Neither is acceptable because neither have any basis in fact. You simply don't know what you are talking about.
It must be nice to be ignorant. How did you do it?
That's your BOY...a real republican!
No kidding! McCain makes Clinton look like an alter boy. I don't know about you, but with McCain's admitted womanizing could it be that he selected Palin so that he could go President on Vice President? He would really have bragging rights then. I'll betcha Bill is jealous.
October 21, 2008 9:31 PM
That Obama was registered at Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia as a Muslim, is shown in a photo of his registration record available at http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns06D. That he participated in Islamic activities there, is recounted by Obama himself in his book, "Dreams of My Father". Sorry no URL, you will have to buy and read it yourself.
October 23, 2008 2:20 PM
So what's you point? Other than being a possible bigot?
I guess you'd also like to find a copy of Jesus' birth certificate and highlight that it would say he was born Jewish... I'm sure his father Joseph considered his son to be Jewish.
By the way, not everyone playing football at Notre Dame is Catholic...
I haven't heard of any scientific breakthroughs that link person's DNA and genes to their religious beliefs.
Bottome line, Obama is not of the Islamic faith and is an all American Christian... end of story.
October 23, 2008 2:20 PM
let's assume, chicken little, BO is Muslim . So WHAT! Let me ask you, do you know who Mitt Romney is? If you do then can you tell me what his religious affiliation is? What about Joe Lieberman? Know what he is? By the way, the Muslim religion has the largest following on earth. Your bigoted simple minded ways have no value. And what are you, my small minded bigot?
October 23, 2008 2:20 PM
"That Obama was registered at Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia as a Muslim".
But after all of that he turned to Christianity. Hmm, what do you know? Sounds like your kind of guy.
October 23, 2008 9:40 PM
If you follow the thread, October 20, 2008 9:13 AM, October 21, 2008 9:31 PM, October 23, 2008 2:20 PM, it should be apparent that the comments address Obama's veracity not his religion. I would be more comfortable with a qualifier such as 'since I was old enough to make the decision for myself . . .' rather than "lifelong".
I have listened to Senator Obama and the Democrats. I have listened to Senator McCain and the Republicans. I have also heard a fair amount of misinformation from other parties as well.
My vote will be for Senator Obama.
October 23, 2008 9:40 PM
Yes, and Klinton didn't have sex in the whitehouse nor did he do drugs or was he a anti-american draft dodger. Awsom democratic logic, as long as it's in their favor.
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