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Saturday, November 28, 2009
What budget shortfalls?
Anonymously contributed (title added by BLOG moderator):
There is a legal difference between homeland "security" and homeland "defense." The latter job belongs to the military. DOD's force structure and concept of ops are not really designed to operate within the US borders.
Ever heard of the Posse Comitatus Act. The 1878 Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services military from exercising law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (i.e., states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.
If a terrorist group attacks in a US city and takes hostages, its the local police and FBI that respond first and have the lead, not the military. This is not the case in a lot of other countries. Take Russia - the military has the lead response, and it can take them a long time to get on scene, which has lead to some bad outcomes.
DHS is a good idea, but it is still a very young agency.
Remember that the original bill proposed by the Bush White House had LLNL completely transferred to the new DHS as its primary national research lab and the R&D staffing seed of DHS's S&T directorate. They envisioned LLNL coordinating the "work" of the DOE and non-DOE labs doing DHS research. Several key congressional types with other national labs in their home districts opposed this approach - could you see LLNL being in charge of recommending to DHS HQ which national labs received DHS funding for projects. The final law creating DHS killed the move of LLNL. The law creating DHS said DHS would have direct access to any DOE national lab instead, and DOE could not tax the work like it taxes regular WFO.
Unfortunately, when the new DHS lost LLNL it also lost the technical leadership component of its S&T Directorate. The non-political management and oversight of science/research in DHS S&T has been a complete mess, uncoordinated, and a lot of federal money has been wasted by duplication and infighting of federal labs.
1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Preventing or reacting to a incident like 9/11 is exactly what what 10:58 meant. Terrorists are not criminals, Terrorism is an act of war by an external power using non-uniformed combatants. Like Germany sending saboteurs ashore during WWII.
I recall when Bush's DHS secretary visited the lab. His stormtroopers had the place on lock-down. A guard brandished a loaded automatic weapon at a Lab taxi that day. Clearly DHS thought a taxi full of Q-cleared employees was a bigger threat than checking cargo at harbors or securing the borders.
Chu will never help the lab's funding status. He's bent on painting rooftops white and installing 'smart' power meters as part of a misguided Green agenda. Where is the funding for advanced reactor design?
Meanwhile DHS funding is just an offshoot of what DARPA does all the time. Same nutty ideas, different bank account. Lowell Wood-style thinking lives on.
Interesting that you brought up the German WW2's Operation Pastorius.
Michael Dobbs' book - Saboteurs: The Nazi Raid on America, New York: Knopf, 2004, is the best researched text on this subject.
A couple things of note;
Specifically the Germans came ashore in June 1942 wearing military uniforms so that if they were captured they would be classified as prisoners of war rather than spies.
All eight were captured (2 turned the group into the FBI) by July 1942 before conducting a single act of violence.
At the time of their capture, most of the saboteurs were too busy visiting gambling establishments and prostitutes to be planning any major acts of sabotage. Several were reuniting with family they’d left behind in America, while another had met up with an old girlfriend and was in the process of planning his wedding.
Since the men hadn’t actually committed any crime, a normal court could sentence them to at most a few years in prison—or even acquit them entirely. To President Roosevelt, this was unacceptable. In a memorandum sent to Attorney General Biddle, he wrote: “Surely they are as guilty as it is possible to be and it seems to me that the death penalty is almost obligatory.” A military tribunal, he felt, was the only way to ensure this outcome. “I won’t give them up,” he told Biddle, “I won’t hand them over to any United States marshal armed with a writ of habeas corpus.”
Within a month of the initial landing at Long Island, the eight saboteurs were put before a closed-door US military tribunal—the first to be assembled since the days of the Civil War. It was presided over by a panel of seven generals; there would be no jury, no press, and no appeal. During the trial, none of the defendants denied their involvement with the plot, instead claiming that they were forced into the mission by the Nazis, or that they had joined as a means to escape from Germany.
They were charged with 1) violating the law of war; 2) violating Article 81 of the Articles of War, defining the offense of corresponding with or giving intelligence to the enemy; 3) violating Article 82 of the Articles of War, defining the offense of spying; and 4) conspiracy to commit the offenses alleged in the first three charges.
Their lawyers attempted to have the case tried in a civilian court, but were rebuffed by the Supreme Court in Ex parte Quirin.
All eight defendants were found guilty and sentenced to death. President Roosevelt commuted the sentences of the 2 that turned on the group (one sentence to life and the other to 30 years), because they had turned themselves in and provided information about the others. The others were executed on August 8, 1942.
8 comments:
Chu is playing favorites. Energy research vs defense projects. A better argument to get the weapons labs out of DoE jurisdiction I never saw.
Homeland security. Nothing but a boondoggle and a bad joke at that. Protecting the homeland is supposed to be the military's job.
There is a legal difference between homeland "security" and homeland "defense." The latter job belongs to the military. DOD's force structure and concept of ops are not really designed to operate within the US borders.
Ever heard of the Posse Comitatus Act. The 1878 Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services military from exercising law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (i.e., states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.
If a terrorist group attacks in a US city and takes hostages, its the local police and FBI that respond first and have the lead, not the military. This is not the case in a lot of other countries. Take Russia - the military has the lead response, and it can take them a long time to get on scene, which has lead to some bad outcomes.
DHS is a good idea, but it is still a very young agency.
Remember that the original bill proposed by the Bush White House had LLNL completely transferred to the new DHS as its primary national research lab and the R&D staffing seed of DHS's S&T directorate. They envisioned LLNL coordinating the "work" of the DOE and non-DOE labs doing DHS research. Several key congressional types with other national labs in their home districts opposed this approach - could you see LLNL being in charge of recommending to DHS HQ which national labs received DHS funding for projects. The final law creating DHS killed the move of LLNL. The law creating DHS said DHS would have direct access to any DOE national lab instead, and DOE could not tax the work like it taxes regular WFO.
Unfortunately, when the new DHS lost LLNL it also lost the technical leadership component of its S&T Directorate. The non-political management and oversight of science/research in DHS S&T has been a complete mess, uncoordinated, and a lot of federal money has been wasted by duplication and infighting of federal labs.
"Posse Comitatus Act. The 1878 Act prohibits..."
Not anymore. This act has been eroded over time, and means very little now.
Well it is still on the books…
US Code - TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 67
1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Preventing or reacting to a incident like 9/11 is exactly what what 10:58 meant. Terrorists are not criminals, Terrorism is an act of war by an external power using non-uniformed combatants. Like Germany sending saboteurs ashore during WWII.
I recall when Bush's DHS secretary visited the lab. His stormtroopers had the place on lock-down. A guard brandished a loaded automatic weapon at a Lab taxi that day. Clearly DHS thought a taxi full of Q-cleared employees was a bigger threat than checking cargo at harbors or securing the borders.
Chu will never help the lab's funding status. He's bent on painting rooftops white and installing 'smart' power meters as part of a misguided Green agenda. Where is the funding for advanced reactor design?
Meanwhile DHS funding is just an offshoot of what DARPA does all the time. Same nutty ideas, different bank account. Lowell Wood-style thinking lives on.
1:42 PM
Actually under US law, terrorism is in fact a crime.
US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 113B - Terrorism
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/113B
And general discussion on the long history of terrorism in the US can be had at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorist_(United_States)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States
1:42 PM
Interesting that you brought up the German WW2's Operation Pastorius.
Michael Dobbs' book - Saboteurs: The Nazi Raid on America, New York: Knopf, 2004, is the best researched text on this subject.
A couple things of note;
Specifically the Germans came ashore in June 1942 wearing military uniforms so that if they were captured they would be classified as prisoners of war rather than spies.
All eight were captured (2 turned the group into the FBI) by July 1942 before conducting a single act of violence.
At the time of their capture, most of the saboteurs were too busy visiting gambling establishments and prostitutes to be planning any major acts of sabotage. Several were reuniting with family they’d left behind in America, while another had met up with an old girlfriend and was in the process of planning his wedding.
Since the men hadn’t actually committed any crime, a normal court could sentence them to at most a few years in prison—or even acquit them entirely. To President Roosevelt, this was unacceptable. In a memorandum sent to Attorney General Biddle, he wrote: “Surely they are as guilty as it is possible to be and it seems to me that the death penalty is almost obligatory.” A military tribunal, he felt, was the only way to ensure this outcome. “I won’t give them up,” he told Biddle, “I won’t hand them over to any United States marshal armed with a writ of habeas corpus.”
Within a month of the initial landing at Long Island, the eight saboteurs were put before a closed-door US military tribunal—the first to be assembled since the days of the Civil War. It was presided over by a panel of seven generals; there would be no jury, no press, and no appeal. During the trial, none of the defendants denied their involvement with the plot, instead claiming that they were forced into the mission by the Nazis, or that they had joined as a means to escape from Germany.
They were charged with 1) violating the law of war; 2) violating Article 81 of the Articles of War, defining the offense of corresponding with or giving intelligence to the enemy; 3) violating Article 82 of the Articles of War, defining the offense of spying; and 4) conspiracy to commit the offenses alleged in the first three charges.
Their lawyers attempted to have the case tried in a civilian court, but were rebuffed by the Supreme Court in Ex parte Quirin.
All eight defendants were found guilty and sentenced to death. President Roosevelt commuted the sentences of the 2 that turned on the group (one sentence to life and the other to 30 years), because they had turned themselves in and provided information about the others. The others were executed on August 8, 1942.
A more detailed recap is at
http://www.damninteresting.com/operation-pastorius
Our society is pushing up against those laws 'on the books'.
Google this: "Posse Comitatus violations in America"
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