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Wednesday, November 5, 2014
Lab managers
Lab managers will ALWAYS protect themselves. If you disagree with their incompetence. YOU will be persecuted. Guaranteed!
19 comments:
Anonymous
said...
This would include trying to openly talk intelligently about how to minimize a repeat of the LLNS engineering employee suicide, or lesser but still unnecessary stress on employees from LLNS managers or their Staff Relations machine. Mention this topic and feel their wrath.
Talk to LLNS Health Services about the suicide and proactive future prevention or "lessons learned", and you will be told they can and do provide group grief counseling, but can not "police" the issue. Physician Hippocratic Oath at LLNS? Not so much.
I'm not sure of the expectation being voiced. Medical has responsibility for psychological evaluations for employees in certain limited categories. There are also things like the Employee Assistance Program and mental health coverage under insurance plans, providing benefits employees can access.
Like any population of human beings, there are suicides among Lab employees. There were certainly so long before contract transition. I'm sorry to hear that there may have been a recent instance within the Engineering ranks, but have no knowledge of that, nor to what degree work issues were a fundamental cause. If they were someone that directly touched your life, I am sorry for your loss and the bewildering questions it may pose for all that were close to them.
The important thing about any suicide is to ignore it, hoping that there are not any legal repurcussions. You all have security clearances and zero job mobility. Therefore, you know how to keep your mouths shut or risk a bad fate. For those of you in special access programs, you know how to lie and maintain cover stories. If management and staff relations needs you to change your story or lie about something you saw, you will gladly do it.
"...The important thing about any suicide is to ignore it, hoping that there are not any legal repurcussions. You all have security clearances and zero job mobility..."
At LANL or LLNL, if the probability is low (suicide) but the event is catastrophic (death) we are suppose to consider that scenario. Failure to have a "lessons learned" discussion is essentially saying we don't care nor will we acknowledge such events if it tarnishes our reputation or has legal ramifications for LANSLLNS.
The employees are scared sh______ less for their jobs and are afraid to talk. That is the bottom line.
At least consider the fact that the act was not one in response to the LLNS environment (which can easily be escaped) but perhaps in response to the unknown (and unknowable to non-family members) other environments the victim had to try to deal with. Tragedy, certainly. The fault of LLNS or DOE/NNSA? Not proven and unlikely pending further information, which is also unlikely.
"...At least consider the fact that the act was not one in response to the LLNS environment (which can easily be escaped) but perhaps in response to the unknown (and unknowable to non-family members) other environments the victim had to try to deal with..."
Outside environment is always a factor.
A LLNS administrative event preceded the act. How many associated administrative events there were prior to the final one would require an investigation.
I'm sure this was not an outcome anyone wanted, but what were the "lessons learned" here for prevention going forward?
And if it was (in part) your response would be to do what?
November 11, 2014 at 6:58 PM
Absolutely nothing. The best advice I ever got was to not worry about things I can do nothing about, and to mind my own business. You can write nasty speculative blog messages all you want, I hope it makes you feel better. If I had known the victim, my response would be known to his family, but not to you. This tragedy should not be made a public spectacle. Get over yourself.
"...Absolutely nothing. The best advice I ever got was to not worry about things I can do nothing about, and to mind my own business..."
What do you believe is speculative exactly? With your reasoning anything out of your control is not worth concerning yourself with? So carry on and hope for the best? Not your responsibility yes? What about compassion for your fellow employees in the same work environment?
I understand employees are afraid, but please refrain from criticizing those of us wanting to work in a healthy work environment.
Condolences to the family are important, but that alone does not address workplace environmental factors, and you know this. Given the magnitude of the issue, the only employees wanting this matter to go away are those involved.
the only employees wanting this matter to go away are those involved.
November 11, 2014 at 8:24 PM
Shouldn't that wisdom be enough for you?? What gives you the right to butt your nose in where you have no business? If you think your work environment isn't "healthy" call the health department, or leave, or just please stfu. You don't always get to express what you think, at least if you have any sense of propriety or manners.
What wisdom do you speak of? A concern for the health and welfare of fellow coworkers does not equate to butting ones nose where you have no business. Health and safety are everyone's business and part of the purported safety culture we speak of here at LLNS. The Health Services staff are under managements thumb and "at will" employees. Are you a newbie to LLNS?
If its a misuse of a tool, a misuse of a ladder, not following an IWS procedure, or some other "worker bee" fault, it becomes a broadcasted "lessons learned". If management is partially in the fault loop, "butt out" and "mind your own business", or leave? What LLNS division to you work in so I can stay far away from it.
What LLNS division to you work in so I can stay far away from it.
November 11, 2014 at 9:24 PM
I don't work at LLNL. Just can't abide people who insist they have a "right" to sped all their time looking for reasons to point fingers at other people. I don't disagree that the environment at LLNL is toxic, but you are a major reason for that. Your righteous outrage is disingenuous and fooling no one. If you don't like being treated like an out-of-control juvenile, stop acting like one.
The hush hush under the shroud of privacy concerns is disingenuous. Why so defensive? If you don't like this blog, take your own advice, consider it "none of your business" and don't read it or "butt in". This was the "best advice" you ever received.
Before you do leave this blog, why don't you inform its readers what topics are or are not worthy of your approval. Beyond employee suicides, what about bully managers, sexual harassment, intimidation, fraud, conflict of interest, etc. Are theses topics "out of ones control" and unimportant too? We don't want to say anything that will upset you.
Employee morale is at an all time low because of people just like you. When employees are threatened or intimidated, the information will ooz out on a blog. Fix the retaliation culture at LLNS and your unfavorable blog content will go away on its own.
The hush hush under the shroud of privacy concerns is disingenuous.
You probably wouldn't feel that way if it were your or your family's privacy that were being protected. The privacy laws, especially if it is related to medical issues, are very strict.
"...You probably wouldn't feel that way if it were your or your family's privacy that were being protected. The privacy laws, especially if it is related to medical issues, are very strict..."
You raise a good point on family privacy, but that must be considered against an improved circumstance for others. For example, I may not want the general public to know that I was (fictitiously) a victim of contract fraud, but on the other hand, I certainty would not want others to endure the same. Steps taken to prevent a repeat by the offender might be worth it. A perspective you may wish to consider. The "act" of the employee is not one to easily dismiss.
19 comments:
This would include trying to openly talk intelligently about how to minimize a repeat of the LLNS engineering employee suicide, or lesser but still unnecessary stress on employees from LLNS managers or their Staff Relations machine. Mention this topic and feel their wrath.
Talk to LLNS Health Services about the suicide and proactive future prevention or "lessons learned", and you will be told they can and do provide group grief counseling, but can not "police" the issue. Physician Hippocratic Oath at LLNS? Not so much.
"Lab managers"
LLNL is becoming the "good old girls" network. I've never seen so many opaque transitions to key roles of non-proven souls.
This tops the "good old boys" network of the 80s. At least then people had vision and were competent scientist and technically.
Physician Hippocratic Oath at LLNS? Not so much.
I'm not sure of the expectation being voiced. Medical has responsibility for psychological evaluations for employees in certain limited categories. There are also things like the Employee Assistance Program and mental health coverage under insurance plans, providing benefits employees can access.
Like any population of human beings, there are suicides among Lab employees. There were certainly so long before contract transition. I'm sorry to hear that there may have been a recent instance within the Engineering ranks, but have no knowledge of that, nor to what degree work issues were a fundamental cause. If they were someone that directly touched your life, I am sorry for your loss and the bewildering questions it may pose for all that were close to them.
The important thing about any suicide is to ignore it, hoping that there are not any legal repurcussions. You all have security clearances and zero job mobility. Therefore, you know how to keep your mouths shut or risk a bad fate. For those of you in special access programs, you know how to lie and maintain cover stories. If management and staff relations needs you to change your story or lie about something you saw, you will gladly do it.
"...The important thing about any suicide is to ignore it, hoping that there are not any legal repurcussions. You all have security clearances and zero job mobility..."
At LANL or LLNL, if the probability is low (suicide) but the event is catastrophic (death) we are suppose to consider that scenario. Failure to have a "lessons learned" discussion is essentially saying we don't care nor will we acknowledge such events if it tarnishes our reputation or has legal ramifications for LANSLLNS.
The employees are scared sh______ less for their jobs and are afraid to talk. That is the bottom line.
At least consider the fact that the act was not one in response to the LLNS environment (which can easily be escaped) but perhaps in response to the unknown (and unknowable to non-family members) other environments the victim had to try to deal with. Tragedy, certainly. The fault of LLNS or DOE/NNSA? Not proven and unlikely pending further information, which is also unlikely.
"...At least consider the fact that the act was not one in response to the LLNS environment (which can easily be escaped) but perhaps in response to the unknown (and unknowable to non-family members) other environments the victim had to try to deal with..."
Outside environment is always a factor.
A LLNS administrative event preceded the act. How many associated administrative events there were prior to the final one would require an investigation.
I'm sure this was not an outcome anyone wanted, but what were the "lessons learned" here for prevention going forward?
"...At least consider the fact that the act was not one in response to the LLNS environment..."
And if it was (in part) your response would be to do what?
And if it was (in part) your response would be to do what?
November 11, 2014 at 6:58 PM
Absolutely nothing. The best advice I ever got was to not worry about things I can do nothing about, and to mind my own business. You can write nasty speculative blog messages all you want, I hope it makes you feel better. If I had known the victim, my response would be known to his family, but not to you. This tragedy should not be made a public spectacle. Get over yourself.
"...Absolutely nothing. The best advice I ever got was to not worry about things I can do nothing about, and to mind my own business..."
What do you believe is speculative exactly? With your reasoning anything out of your control is not worth concerning yourself with? So carry on and hope for the best? Not your responsibility yes? What about compassion for your fellow employees in the same work environment?
I understand employees are afraid, but please refrain from criticizing those of us wanting to work in a healthy work environment.
Condolences to the family are important, but that alone does not address workplace environmental factors, and you know this. Given the magnitude of the issue, the only employees wanting this matter to go away are those involved.
the only employees wanting this matter to go away are those involved.
November 11, 2014 at 8:24 PM
Shouldn't that wisdom be enough for you?? What gives you the right to butt your nose in where you have no business? If you think your work environment isn't "healthy" call the health department, or leave, or just please stfu. You don't always get to express what you think, at least if you have any sense of propriety or manners.
What wisdom do you speak of? A concern for the health and welfare of fellow coworkers does not equate to butting ones nose where you have no business. Health and safety are everyone's business and part of the purported safety culture we speak of here at LLNS. The Health Services staff are under managements thumb and "at will" employees. Are you a newbie to LLNS?
If its a misuse of a tool, a misuse of a ladder, not following an IWS procedure, or some other "worker bee" fault, it becomes a broadcasted "lessons learned". If management is partially in the fault loop, "butt out" and "mind your own business", or leave?
What LLNS division to you work in so I can stay far away from it.
"...What LLNS division..."
Staff Relations Division would be a good guess or one of their "clients".
What LLNS division to you work in so I can stay far away from it.
November 11, 2014 at 9:24 PM
I don't work at LLNL. Just can't abide people who insist they have a "right" to sped all their time looking for reasons to point fingers at other people. I don't disagree that the environment at LLNL is toxic, but you are a major reason for that. Your righteous outrage is disingenuous and fooling no one. If you don't like being treated like an out-of-control juvenile, stop acting like one.
"...Your righteous outrage is disingenuous..."
The hush hush under the shroud of privacy concerns is disingenuous. Why so defensive? If you don't like this blog, take your own advice, consider it "none of your business" and don't read it or "butt in". This was the "best advice" you ever received.
Before you do leave this blog, why don't you inform its readers what topics are or are not worthy of your approval. Beyond employee suicides, what about bully managers, sexual harassment, intimidation, fraud, conflict of interest, etc. Are theses topics "out of ones control" and unimportant too? We don't want to say anything that will upset you.
Employee morale is at an all time low because of
people just like you. When employees are threatened or intimidated, the information will ooz out on a blog.
Fix the retaliation culture at LLNS and your unfavorable blog content will go away on its own.
The hush hush under the shroud of privacy concerns is disingenuous.
You probably wouldn't feel that way if it were your or your family's privacy that were being protected. The privacy laws, especially if it is related to medical issues, are very strict.
"...You probably wouldn't feel that way if it were your or your family's privacy that were being protected. The privacy laws, especially if it is related to medical issues, are very strict..."
You raise a good point on family privacy, but that must be considered against an improved circumstance for others. For example, I may not want the general public to know that I was (fictitiously) a victim of contract fraud, but on the other hand, I certainty would not want others to endure the same. Steps taken to prevent a repeat by the offender might be worth it. A perspective you may wish to consider. The "act" of the employee is not one to easily dismiss.
It is possible the family has a "nondisclosure" agreement/settlement with LLNS.
It is possible the family has a "nondisclosure" agreement/settlement with LLNS.
November 12, 2014 at 3:46 PM
Not necessary. LLNS would face serious legal problems even without it. The lawyers aren't stupid.
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