Actual post from Dec. 15 from one of the streams. This is a real topic. As far as promoting women and minorities even if their qualifications are not as good as the white male scientists, I am all for it. We need diversity at the lab and if that is what it takes, so be it. Quit your whining. Look around the lab, what do you see? White male geezers. How many African Americans do you see at the lab? Virtually none. LLNL is one of the MOST undiverse places you will see. Face it folks, LLNL is an institution of white male privilege and they don't want to give up their privileged positions. California, a state of majority Hispanics has the "crown jewel" LLNL nestled in the middle of it with very FEW Hispanics at all!
Comments
We have been over this before, there was never a culture arrogance.
Nanos did ot even believe any of it himself he simply thought he could move up or profit if attacked the lab. He turned on his own people for 30 pieces of silver.
Dante says the ninth and lowest level of Hell is for treachery and betrayal so I guess we know where Nanos belongs.
January 4, 2016 at 9:14 PM"
You have no evidence of a cultural of arrogance. Who specially are you going to fire, scientists, managers, guards, and admins? Would you have said the same thing in 1980, 1990, 1999, and 2010? Where does you "culture" arrogance start? Do you even know what a culture is? Try getting some facts before you spewing your BS.
January 5, 2016 at 7:24 AM"
How on earth is asking for evidence equivalent to being arrogant? Just stating some vague and sweeping generalization and saying it is true because I said so sounds like arrogance. It seems ironic that you do not even see your own extreme arrogance.
His bottom line was "since I am so great at experimental design, and LANL is so great at experimental execution, and we can not duplicate the WIPP drum explosion, then there is no possible chance at all that any part of the explosion was LANL's fault."
Many coworkers, all of them long term LANL scientists, were deeply embarrassed by Wallace and his debacle.
January 5, 2016 at 8:29 AM
This would point to exactly the opposite of the culture of arrogance. It might say that Wallace is arrogant but it would say that LANL scientists are not.
January 5, 2016 at 8:06 AM
How is this a reply to statements of 7:34 am?
January 5, 2016 at 8:44 AM
I took it as a compliment. Any good scientist will require evidence for a hypothesis.
January 5, 2016 at 10:17 AM"
And this my friends is proof of the cultural of arrogance at Los Alamos, out there for you all to see.
"Los Alamos scientists are all arrogant cowboy!"
"Can you explain why?"
"Ah, you see, arrogance!"
"No, really, please tell us why you think so."
"What an arrogant request!"
"Can you explain yourself? In science, we use evidence."
"You want evidence?! That, right there is evidence of your arrogance, arrogance, arrogance! Just based on this exchange, this nuclear weapons lab needs to shut down immediately! Nanos was right!"
LANL deserved a great persuasive, scientific leader who could sell the mission, plan the strategy, cultivate future scientists and leaders and rally the troops.
Nanos was none of those. Typical establishment navy. Follows orders.
Nanos was not typical navy, he was never even allowed command of a ship, that tells you need to know about what the navy thought of him.
January 6, 2016 at 7:31 AM
Could you please provide some proof for this grandiose and sweeping statement. It sounds like something you just made up to sound clever.
January 6, 2016 at 8:20 AM
Arrogant poster.
Why did PF-4 and WETF shut down? Arrogance followed by a pride swallowing thump.
Does LANL follow federal regulations in regards to waste, explosives, classified information? Does LANL even read the regs?
How does LANL approach the other labs? Let's see, LLNL is a joke about lasers to them. Sandi is not a lab to them it is a production facility. ORNL is a bunch of hicks.
I personally have not met an arrogant scientist, in fact the ones I have met are generally quiet and humble but I have met a heck of a lot of arrogant non scientist and they were here at LANL way before LANS was even a thought.
Deny all you want but at the end of the day, the world will keep spinning if they do shut the place down.
Huh, do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up these claims, any? No one at LANL says LLNL is joke, or that "Sandia" is a productions faculty, how on earth would any think that the scientists at ORNL are a bunch of hicks. This is just crazy talk and makes you sound like some kind of unhinged crackpot.
Any comment on the other parts regarding regs and operating facilities. I would bet not.
Well you have provided some evidence that you are a bit of a wack job. Just out of curiosity could you explain what is wrong with you or why you have a problem with LANL scientists? You wouldn't happen to be an ex lab employee by chance?
You can debate him, ask to explain his views, or decline to answer altogether. Any response will be interpreted as further proof that you are one of "the sociopathic trolls with PhDs who fill the halls at LANL".
Now that LANS is out, the NNsA will cut more benefits and freeze the pension program. Watch Sandia and learn. Be careful what you wish for because the real problem may be the NNsA.
Even if this is true you cannot make a sweeping generalization the LANL has a culture of arrogance. At best some subsections of the lab have a culture of arrogance but not the whole lab. When Nanos used the world culture or other people in the media use the word they imply non-management scientists. In fact one congresswomen in Colorado even said that "management" at LANL gets it, but not the workforce.
Also the idea that management thinks "LANL is great" does not seem to ring true, I would say that management looks down on the workforce at LANL and consider LANL to be a hustle for easy money and believe if you work hard at your job or believe in your job you are some kind of sucker. The arrogance comes into part by thinking they themselves are "great" and "above it all" not because of science or ability but because they have figured out how the real world works. Now I believe this worldview will fail in the long run and it looks like it has but please do not blame working scientists, engineers, technical and non-technical staff at the lab for a culture of arrogance.
This is every week. I know. I've watch it for decades. You only hear part of it. It is not scientists but it is driven but people who think they are.
January 9, 2016 at 10:33 AM
Bingo, 10:33 am gets it. Except it includes scientists, and was started by scientists decades ago. Louis Slotin was an early example.
January 9, 2016 at 10:33 AM
Bingo, 10:33 am gets it. Except it includes scientists, and was started by scientists decades ago. Louis Slotin was an early example.
January 9, 2016 at 11:12 AM
Terry Wallace is another example.
BS, it does not include scientists. The fact that you have to go back to someone who died in May 1946, is an example of how wrong you are. You are completely lost in some la la land in your hate for Los Alamos and scientists in general. I think you have some personal issues that you should deal with before you blame all your failures in life on LANL, scientists, and people with college degrees.
To have a shot at curing this patient, you have to put LANL not only "under new contract", but "under new management". Which means that with the contract change all current managers, division leaders and above, should be sent packing. Come to think of it, many group leaders should also be included.
All these people right now are maneuvering to position themselves for the change. Don't let them stay. To cure this patient, make sure all the pathogens are completely gone.
At least half of the vacated management positions can then be safely eliminated. They were created after LANS came in, as cushy jobs with no useful functions and outrageous salaries. Compete the remaining positions externally, to bring in much needed fresh blood and purge the crony corruption, misconduct, and, yes, arrogance.
January 9, 2016 at 4:27 PM
So you have 3 people since 1945, and even then this could be due utter incompetence and not arrogance. If anything is says that exact opposite of your point that there is a culture of arrogance. Back in the Nanos shut down Brad Hollian got some statistics which was published in Physics Today.
www.npr.org/healthscience/documents/holian_alamos.pdfNPR
The data clearly showed had better safety records than LLNL, SNL, ORNL, and was slightly better than ANL, BNL, and significantly better than the Chemical and Manufacturing Industry. I would also add that over the last 10 years there has been a number deaths at University laboratories as well many which where in the news such the incident at Yale. The idea that there was some kind of culture of arrogance or a cowboy culture that does not take safety or security seriously is simply does not pan out when compared against any actual data.
You never present facts just some isolated cases which mean nothing without comparison to other institutions. You keep using your own personal opinion which sounds it is tainted by some personal grievance.
Say what you want about the 8:01 poster but the data in the Holian document counters the claim that LANL was ever filled with some kind of arrogant cowboy culture.
To have a shot at curing this patient, you have to put LANL not only "under new contract", but "under new management". Which means that with the contract change all current managers, division leaders and above, should be sent packing. Come to think of it, many group leaders should also be included.
All these people right now are maneuvering to position themselves for the change. Don't let them stay. To cure this patient, make sure all the pathogens are completely gone.
At least half of the vacated management positions can then be safely eliminated. They were created after LANS came in, as cushy jobs with no useful functions and outrageous salaries. Compete the remaining positions externally, to bring in much needed fresh blood and purge the crony corruption, misconduct, and, yes, arrogance.
January 9, 2016 at 7:19 PM
7:19 PM presents about the best option that has been offered. LANL requires both "new contract" and "new management" if it has any hope at all of recovery. Anything less will yield enduring illness.
January 10, 2016 at 7:52 AM"
How do you come to this conclusion? 7:32 AM presented 3 names from 1946-2016 as evidence for a culture of arrogance, this is hardly evidence. 8:01PM than replied with
by presenting a rigorous study that was peer reviewed and published in Physics Today and the actual statics of safety incidents showing that LANL was lower than most of other comparable institutes. Again please explain how you come to your conclusion.
The only choice for LANL to survive is a "new management" that replaces all division leaders and above with external managers.
We have yet hear a logical reply to points raised. Can you please provide some quantifiable evidence and comparison with comparable institutes that would justify you opinion that LANL has a culture of arrogance.
January 10, 2016 at 6:27 PM
Cute, the "scientist" demanding "quantifiable evidence" for an undefined, subjective opinion. Your world view is a little narrow, dude.
The managers, on the other hand, are astoundingly arrogant. Much more so than before LANS came in.