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Saturday, March 11, 2023
Laser shots at NIF...
...
could spark additional discoveries in astrophysics
Wow, the rationalizations run deep on this thread. While NIF justification alternates between weapons and free energy, it isn’t like NIF provides data that keeps us from testing in Nevada. Neither will it lead to commercial laser fusion power plants. NIF has always been a 10 billion dollar scientific playground.
NIF has always been a 10 billion dollar scientific playground.
3/13/2023 5:34 AM
10 billion is nothing to the taxpayer at this point. We give out hundreds of billions now to all sorts of random things like bail outs, Oligarchs, hands outs, and so on. 10 billion more is just fine, heck at least we get a little bit out of NIF, as opposed to killing 10s of thousands of people, or giving billions or millions to rich people.
This may sound a bit cynical but at this point saying we are wasting "billions" simply is not an argument I buy anymore. If it costs billions so what, just print it. It makes no difference at this point.
“If it costs billions so what, just print it. It makes no difference at this point.”
Why have a DOE or NNSA budget at all? Just use billions and billions and print it. Sound reasoning? I wonder if this argument would have worked on the front side of the NIF project when initial funding was proposed? I don’t think so. At the local level , if you were another program at LLNL, you’d know NIF has been siphoning money away from other non-NIF programs by way of space tax charges for years. The “just print it” argument has been ineffective at the local level and has impacted non-NIF program funding for years.
I see your argument but without NIF there is no real point in funding LLNL. NIF is they to keeping LLNL going with the promise of free energy. Your arguments about cost are internal, just print it is external. DOE is fine with NIF using more money or else they would have stopped it. NIF is going to get even more money now, so jump on the ship or get left behind. I am not trying to be mean just realistic.
LANL is seen as the weapon/pit lab, one shop for NW lab. Sandia does missiles and stuff, LLNL does NIF.
“I see your argument but without NIF there is no real point in funding LLNL…NIF is going to get even more money now…”
Yes, NIF is a significant part of LLNL funding, and hopefully they can reproduce and increase shot gain going forward, but there are many other LLNL programs that are important too that are worthy of funding independent of NIF.
“House Science, Space & Technology Committee Testimony LLNL Director Dr. Kimberly Budil February 28, 2023”
I hope Director Budil’s testimony came across as cautiously optimistic. Right or wrong, over selling the success of NIF probably cost Dr. Moses his job in 2014 after NIF failed to reach ignition in 2012. Unfortunately, Director Albright left LLNL in 2013 too.
12 comments:
Going from creating free energy for all to discovery the secrets of the universe, NIF does it all.
No, it does neither of them. Still trying hard to find any justification at all.
What is NIF's justification? Weapons. Stockpile stewardship.
https://www.llnl.gov/news/ignition-experiment-advances-stockpile-stewardship-mission
But, we could go back to punching holes in the desert.
Wow, the rationalizations run deep on this thread. While NIF justification alternates between weapons and free energy, it isn’t like NIF provides data that keeps us from testing in Nevada. Neither will it lead to commercial laser fusion power plants. NIF has always been a 10 billion dollar scientific playground.
House Science, Space & Technology Committee Testimony LLNL Director Dr. Kimberly Budil February 28, 2023
https://republicans-science.house.gov/_cache/files/2/f/2f299f68-c3c2-43ef-b4c3-1ab1a8855f65/D55C637E9AF7637F0AB5B5669D84687F.2023-02-28-budil-testimony.pdf
3/13/2023 5:34 AM
Exactly. Well said.
NIF has always been a 10 billion dollar scientific playground.
3/13/2023 5:34 AM
10 billion is nothing to the taxpayer at this point. We give out hundreds of billions now to all sorts of random things like bail outs, Oligarchs,
hands outs, and so on. 10 billion more is just fine, heck at least we get a little bit out of NIF, as opposed to killing 10s of thousands of people, or giving billions or millions to rich people.
This may sound a bit cynical but at this point saying we are wasting "billions" simply is not an argument I buy anymore. If it costs billions so what, just print it. It makes no difference at this point.
“If it costs billions so what, just print it. It makes no difference at this point.”
Why have a DOE or NNSA budget at all? Just use billions and billions and print it. Sound reasoning? I wonder if this argument would have worked on the front side of the NIF project when initial funding was proposed? I don’t think so. At the local level , if you were another program at LLNL, you’d know NIF has been siphoning money away from other non-NIF programs by way of space tax charges for years. The “just print it” argument has been ineffective at the local level and has impacted non-NIF program funding for years.
3/14/2023 9:52 AM
I see your argument but without NIF there is no real point in funding LLNL. NIF is they to keeping LLNL going with the promise of free energy. Your arguments about cost are internal, just print it is external. DOE is fine with NIF using more money or else they would have stopped it. NIF is going to get even more money now, so jump on the ship or get left behind. I am not trying to be mean just realistic.
LANL is seen as the weapon/pit lab, one shop for NW lab. Sandia does missiles and stuff, LLNL does NIF.
Its NIF or nothing at LLNL get used to it.
“I see your argument but without NIF there is no real point in funding LLNL…NIF is going to get even more money now…”
Yes, NIF is a significant part of LLNL funding, and hopefully they can reproduce and increase shot gain going forward, but there are many other LLNL programs that are important too that are worthy of funding independent of NIF.
“House Science, Space & Technology Committee Testimony LLNL Director Dr. Kimberly Budil February 28, 2023”
I hope Director Budil’s testimony came across as cautiously optimistic. Right or wrong, over selling the success of NIF probably cost Dr. Moses his job in 2014 after NIF failed to reach ignition in 2012. Unfortunately, Director Albright left LLNL in 2013 too.
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