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This BLOG is for LLNL present and past employees, friends of LLNL and anyone impacted by the privatization of the Lab to express their opinions and expose the waste, wrongdoing and any kind of injustice against employees and taxpayers by LLNS/DOE/NNSA. The opinions stated are personal opinions. Therefore, The BLOG author may or may not agree with them before making the decision to post them. Comments not conforming to BLOG rules are deleted. Blog author serves as a moderator. For new topics or suggestions, email jlscoob5@gmail.com

Sunday, February 28, 2016

Bechtel employees and TCP1


Most people don't know that Bechtel employees who work at LANL for a short while are able to join TCP1. New employees can't get into TCP1 and it isn't clear what requirements they have before being able to get a pension. Looks like a big perk at the expense of the employees who have been paying in to the system for many years. How many more special considerations will be set up before the contract is finally taken away from these incompetent money grubbers?
February 28, 2016 at 1:09 PM
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Comment:
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TCP-1 vesting is 5 years

50 comments:

Anonymous said...

TCP1 vesting is 5 years for LANL employees, but LANL employees can't join TCP1 anymore. It hasn't been available to LANL people since LANS took over. Bechtel employees are rotated through every couple of years but can join TCP1 so it isn't clear what the vesting period is for them.

Anonymous said...

Bechtel losers have always had a free ride on the backs of LANL personnel. That is exactly why the whole deal was setup in the first place. The Bohemian Grove crowd is well connected and will drain this place dry before they are done raping and pillaging.

Anonymous said...

TCP1 vesting is 5 years for LANL employees, but LANL employees can't join TCP1 anymore.

February 28, 2016 at 5:33 PM

I guess there are still some fools or simpletons who don't understand that THERE ARE NO LANL EMPLOYEES, and there haven't been, ever. Before the transition, you were UC employees, after the transition, you are LANS employees. "LANL" does not employ anyone, since it is not an entity, except as a site consisting of buildings and facilities owned by NNSA. Insisting on calling yourselves "LANL employees" just increases your isolation form reality and makes you sound clueless.

Anonymous said...

February 28, 2016 at 7:25 PM

What is your point?

Anonymous said...

If you follow the Service Anniversary announcements, you'll often spot imports from the Mother Ships celebrating service anniversaries as if they'd worked at LANL all along. Now granted, UC did the same thing before LANS, so UC graduate students could arrive at LANL with 5 years service already under their belts. Anyway, it logically follows that a LANS employee with 10 years service for Bechtel followed by 1 year working at LANL would be eligible, retroactively, for TCP1.

Anonymous said...

Many of the Bechtel folks have been and continue to flood into the nuclear facilities. The one abusive tyrant that continues his flogging of LANS workers is Hugh McGovern. He did such a great job at the Weapons Engineering Tritium Facility (WETF) and Weapon Facility Operations (WFO) that he got promoted to become the Operations Manager of RULOB and the Radiological Liquid Waste Facility (RLW). As to why he has been allowed to continue his abusive and tyrannical behavior is beyond belief. Also, he was just recognized for his 30-year anniversary, having only worked at LANS for 5-years. Another classic carpetbagger; he is want is wrong with LANS and why it failed!

Anonymous said...

8:55pm
There is one major difference. Someone with prior UC time (e.g., Livermore) who moved to LANL was previously contributing to the same pension system (UC). A Bechtel employee would have contributed nothing to the UC pension system. A Bechtel employee should no more be entitled to join TCP1 than a Compa (SE) employee who gets a LANS job.

Anonymous said...

February 28, 2016 at 5:33 PM

I guess there are still some fools or simpletons who don't understand that THERE ARE NO LANL EMPLOYEES, and there haven't been, ever. Before the transition, you were UC employees, after the transition, you are LANS employees. "LANL" does not employ anyone, since it is not an entity, except as a site consisting of buildings and facilities owned by NNSA. Insisting on calling yourselves "LANL employees" just increases your isolation form reality and makes you sound clueless.

February 28, 2016 at 7:25 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Semantics. Really?!?

Anonymous said...

Hugh McGovern is one large reason LANS has failed, he is the embodiment of very bad management. LANS has many Hugh McGovern's within it's ranks. This guy is the "Poster-Boy" for what LANS management is all about. Employees have long suffered under the tyrannical rein of Hugh McGovern and his cohorts.

Anonymous said...

7:25 please stop shouting. Does it really matter whether someone says LANL or LANS? We are trying to have a discussion here about a National Laboratory, LANL, should be something more than LANS which is nothing more than a management organization. Yes we get it, LANS employees us. We are not isolated from reality to wish for better management or believe that a National Laboratory should be and needs to be more than a profit center for a collection of for-profit businesses who don't have a clue what they are managing. Billions of taxpayer dollars are put into the National Laboratories to safely handle waste, train nuclear inspectors, etc. etc. These tasks aren't going away and they need to be done by responsible, knowledgeable people who aren't just carpetbaggers (BTW as there are multiple definitions of carpet baggers, just so you can understand, in this context it means "unscrupulous opportunist"). And using the LANS/LANL pension plan as a perk to a contractor's employees is unscrupulous especially when the people who work at LANL (notice I said "at" not "for") don't have the same opportunity. Also it is the LANL pension since it was transferred from and built to be substantially the same as the UC/LANL pension for those who could/did not retire before LANS took over. The continuity is there for LANL as a National Laboratory whoever runs it and this discussion is about the current management so LANS is implied if the term LANL is used for management. Your post does not add to the discussion of a real concern. If funds are not transferred from Bechtel to cover adding their employees to the pension plan, the individual employees are being charged to keep the plan healthy and then Bechtel is ripping the plan off. We really need answers.

Anonymous said...

We really need answers.

February 29, 2016 at 1:56 PM

I notice you didn't ask any questions.

And if you think the mission at LANL is all about "safely handle waste, train nuclear inspectors, etc. etc." then you obviously aren't working on stockpile stewardship or refurbishment. The mission at LANL should be limited strictly to nuclear weapon research, development, and testing, as it was in the past. Everything else can be handled by any one of a dozen contractors who can attend to their own employees' pensions, etc. (But try to locate any private contractors who still offer defined benefit pension plans. If they did, they've all been converted to 401k's.) Granted LANS has been a disaster, but you can only hope the next contractor is better, because it won't be different.

Anonymous said...

blah, blah, blah...get back to work

Anonymous said...

The mission at LANL should be limited strictly to nuclear weapon research, development, and testing, as it was in the past.

Except we no longer do research, development or testing. So it is safety, waste, inspection, compliance, and accounting. You keep saying that LANS has been a disaster, however in terms of profit close which is close billion dollars with little input, planting employees for a few years between assignments and all the other perks it would seem as though LANS has been a great success. In the corporate world thing only have a 10-15 year horizon so perhaps this was all part of the LANS plan.

Anonymous said...

Except we no longer do research, development or testing.

February 29, 2016 at 8:25 PM

You are woefully uninformed about the weapons program activities. Maybe you don't have a Q clearance? Oh well, makes you a lousy person to opine about LANL mission.

Anonymous said...

From what has been stated in this thread, there looks to be a double standard at play. If you were hired to work at LANL, after the transition from UC to LANS, then there were two options for retirement that were used? If you were from the outside (say coming from a university) you were only offered TCP-2. However, if you were transferring from Bechtel or one of the other corporate partners, somehow you were able to join the "closed" TCP-1 program.

Can anyone see how this is possible? Or, for that matter, even legal?

Anonymous said...

My reading of he Prime Contract is that this situation is not addressed. As I read it, the contract defines four types of LANS employees and describes what pension benefits they qualify for. The only possible category that the situation described here applies to is "new employees" who qualify only for 401k participation. All "parent company support" or "parent company experts" brought in do not qualify for pension benefits of any kind under the contract.

Anonymous said...

Are there public filings that will give some information on what is going on such as number of persons in TCP1 and plan contributions? LLNL probably has the same issue as Bechtel isn't likely to let a good perk go to waste. California transparency laws may give more insight into the practice there but it is also possible that those laws keep Bechtel from treating their retirement plans as a free perk.

Anonymous said...

The 2006 LNNS maifesto regarding 2007 changeover to either TCP1 or TCP2 or healthcare coverage at retirement has turned into....lies lies all lies!!!

Anonymous said...

I want to know what any of this has to do with LLNL? Isn't this the LLNL blog? Looks like the LANL blog. Why don't you guys start your own blog and leave us alone.

Anonymous said...

Whine, whine, whine. You've been assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Anonymous said...

The LANS prime contract is not entirely clear on this matter. It does say parent company employees years of service are grandfathered when they transfer to LANS for the purpose of service awards, vacation and sick leave. It does not say anything about their eligibility for TCP-1. It only says employees hired since 2006 are eligible for TCP-2. Personally, I don't think parent company employees have been granted TCP-1 benefits although there were rumors back in 2006 that some Bechtel employees on the transition team were given this humongous perk. We're talking pension benefits worth millions. If ANY parent company employees have been given TCP-1 benefits, then LANS decree that all TCP-1 employees must contribute 6% of salary to prop-up the underfunded pension could be considered damages to former UC TCP-1 employees to the extent we are paying for the carpetbaggers pension benefits. Smells like a class action lawsuit to me.

Anonymous said...

Is there any evidence of this, at all? Or are we just making things up? I haven't seen it. Even the people who came from other DOE NNSA sites.

Used to be a rule in the DOE complex that you could carry years of service from site to site for retirement purposes but I haven't seen it applied here under LANS.

Anonymous said...

Hugh isn't Bechtel

Anonymous said...

Who will the people on this blog hate on when Bechtel leaves? Your pensions and other benefits are still going to get cut regardless of who takes over. These decisions are made by the DOE. The real issue is the value of your work to the country is dropping in the eyes of the government. Nukes are not seen like they used to be.

Anonymous said...

This money grubber thing is hilarious. Sure people must come here for the 3% raises when they could be getting 5-10% raises on the outside. Or maybe these companies come here for the 1-2% fee (joking of course) because the political risk is soooo low. Maybe, just like the AEC companies, yes this complex has always been run by corporation, these companies are actually vested in the defense of this nation. God forbid.

Anonymous said...

"This money grubber thing is hilarious. Sure people must come here for the 3% raises when they could be getting 5-10% raises on the outside. Or maybe these companies come here for the 1-2% fee (joking of course) because the political risk is soooo low. Maybe, just like the AEC companies, yes this complex has always been run by corporation, these companies are actually vested in the defense of this nation. God forbid.

March 2, 2016 at 10:44 PM"

BS it is about the money that is all.

Anonymous said...

BS it is about the money that is all.

March 3, 2016 at 5:40 AM

The constant refrain of those who don't have any.

Anonymous said...

This post sure has upset the Bechtel management trolls!

Anonymous said...

BS it is about the money that is all.

March 3, 2016 at 5:40 AM

The constant refrain of those who don't have any.

March 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM

Actually, it is the constant refrain of those who lack the intelligence to understand that there might be other drivers to human behavior.

Anonymous said...

Such as Greed, Avarice, Jealousy, Hatred, Fear, etc., etc.

Anonymous said...

Only upset because they didn't get TCP1, the topic is bull.

Anonymous said...

Such as Greed, Avarice, Jealousy, Hatred, Fear, etc., etc.

March 4, 2016 at 2:43 PM

So no one is ever driven by patriotism, ethics, family support, love, empathy, religion, you know, the things that make people good rather than evil? What a cynical, sad, angry person you must be. I bet nobody in this world loves you.

Anonymous said...


"So no one is ever driven by patriotism, ethics, family support, love, empathy, religion, you know, the things that make people good rather than evil? "

Good and evil are loaded words, the labs are about making a profit just like every other business. LANS and LLNS are not about serving the nation, doing good things, doing great science, or being patriotic. Some of these things may or may not come about from for-profit model but it is about profit and when you accept this than you can get over your hang up on the right and wrong crap and start getting in on the profit and advancing your power like many savvy managers have. Business is war you win or lose you make big money or you do not. In the end society is better off since business can compete. LLNLS and LANS are in the business of making money and greed, avarice, jealousy, hatred and fear are par for the course and are needed to make money.

The marketplace does not care if you love your family, love your country, believe in God, or your so called ethics, it cares only about making money. If LANS and LLNS can exploit workers or loopholes to make more money than it must do that or else it will lose the competitive advantage in the marketplace. This may sound harsh and hurt some workers or even the nation but in order to honor the obligation to the stock holders that is what it must do. The for-profit model is never going away from the labs and will most likely just get even more extreme, if you see it for what it is and play your cards right you may become very wealthy. So get your greed, hatred, jealously, fear, avarice or whatever motivates to make money on. If not the labs are not a place for you and if you stay you will just be miserable.

Anonymous said...

So get your greed, hatred, jealously, fear, avarice or whatever motivates to make money on. If not the labs are not a place for you and if you stay you will just be miserable.

March 5, 2016 at 9:59 AM

I'll stay, if only because I see it as my duty and responsibility to counteract your poisonous views and make you miserable. My salary is robust, and my contributions that earn that salary greatly satisfy both my superiors and all my ideals you claim "the marketplace" doesn't care about. In short, I am a more valued commodity than you are.

Anonymous said...

I have not met one person at the Lab that feels their sole job is to get a paycheck. This includes the so called carpetbaggers and managers. They are bought in to the mission (which right now is ambiguous). The executive management does not understand half of what they are managing although recent additions seem to be more intelligent. The overseers (NNSA) are the biggest problem. The place needs a clean slate. UC needs to go away. Break up the contract like they have done everywhere else (operations and science separate). Get NNSA out of the way or get some NNSA people that know what the heck they are doing.

Anonymous said...


Only 1 word for all these differing points of opinion which are all good...CORRUPTION. The bottom line is Congress and the Senate et al Feinstien, Boxer, Miller, the establishment Democrats and Republicans all sold out the labs to enrich their Bechtel handlers. The gig is up, and the sleeping dogs have awaken.
That is why Trump and Cruz are shaking up the corrupt Washington elite.

Its time to take back our country from these Bohemian Grove, Aspen Institute, and Davos elites who are destroying our country for their own self-serving interests.

Good Riddance to these oligarchs.....Its a new day.





Anonymous said...

Break up the contract like they have done everywhere else

March 5, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Splitting up the lab along the lines of nuclear weapons vs science will kill science at LANL, because science has been relying on the base infrastructure funded by weapons for as long as I can remember. (The usual way I've heard it said is "sucking at the teat of weapons") The only way splitting the lab will ever work would be weapon science and design vs weapon production.

Anonymous said...

"The only way splitting the lab will ever work would be weapon science and design vs weapon production.

March 5, 2016 at 2:40 PM"

I think this is what the poster actually means. It makes sense, however managers would
prefer to keep them together since a bigger organization means bigger manager salaries so expect that they will fight this idea to the death.

Anonymous said...

"I'll stay, if only because I see it as my duty and responsibility to counteract your poisonous views and make you miserable. My salary is robust, and my contributions that earn that salary greatly satisfy both my superiors and all my ideals you claim "the marketplace" doesn't care about. In short, I am a more valued commodity than you are.

March 5, 2016 at 10:56 AM"

Ha the current cultural is that managers are superior and your only goal should be to become a manager so that you increase your salary and power and if you are not in management it is only because you are not good enough to be manager. This is what are current corporate culture is like or leave it.

Anonymous said...

This is what are current corporate culture is like or leave it.

March 5, 2016 at 3:03 PM

I don't have to leave it, I can stay and continue to get my very generous salary until I retire and continue to do work I enjoy and my superiors appreciate, and satisfy my ideals at the same time. You see, I am a competent scientist, published worldwide, with ideals that compel me to national security work, and you are not. You are a corporate slug, wallowing in the pit, uneducated and unskilled, waiting to get someone else's money. Sad.

Anonymous said...

I don't have to leave it, I can stay and continue to get my very generous salary until I retire and continue to do work I enjoy and my superiors appreciate, and satisfy my ideals at the same time. You see, I am a competent scientist, published worldwide, with ideals that compel me to national security work, and you are not. You are a corporate slug, wallowing in the pit, uneducated and unskilled, waiting to get someone else's money. Sad.

March 5, 2016 at 9:42 PM

We laugh at you, in case your forgot it is the "scientists" that where perceived to be the problems at the lab that brought in the new corporate culture. Look at the contract, more the half is about safety and security and even less is about science. The way the managers see it you are just a liability and could cost them money. LLNLS and LANS are and will continue to about profit you can have your own personal opinion about yourself but it does not fit in with the cultural mindset.

Anonymous said...

It really isn't about profit. The fee is way too low to be purely about profit. 2% is a joke. I don't know why this blog cuts on scientist lines. We should all be about the same thing. Probably 70%+ of the Labs aren't scientists. Never have been, never will be (unless they break up the contracts). This is about how we lack clarity in our mission and frankly, to me, about protecting the benefit (pension) promised to me when I came here. If we do not focus, this is inevitable.

Anonymous said...

The way the managers see it you are just a liability and could cost them money.

March 5, 2016 at 10:36 PM

I guess that explains my significant raises every year since the transition.

Anonymous said...

"I guess that explains my significant raises every year since the transition.

March 6, 2016 at 10:05 AM"

How much does your AD and PAD make, now that is real money and the point of labs, your raises are noise and you are just another member of the 99% hence a loser.

Anonymous said...

March 6, 2016 at 1:01 PM

Yep, your ideas are right, and no amount of facts will change that. There's a psychological term for that, and it isn't complimentary. I wonder if anyone in your family actually likes you? And I wonder how you got so jealous of upper management?

Anonymous said...

Relax. On Tuesday I again collected TCP-1 pension payment. For the 50th time. 80% of last salary. Deferred Consideration for 35 years of strong work. It will come.

Anonymous said...

These temporary instabilities are self correcting in the long term. The next contractor will determine that there is insufficient work for the size of the workforce, and a robust downsizing will take place. As a result, there will be more retirees drawing funds from TCP-1 and few, if any, workers still paying into the closed program. Given enough time, all retirees will die and the plan will close.

Anonymous said...

Given enough time, all retirees will die and the plan will close.

March 7, 2016 at 11:04 AM

Certainly true, but in which order?

Anonymous said...

"The next contractor will determine that there is insufficient work for the size of the workforce, and a robust downsizing will take place"

False, the next contractor will want more money, more work, more more more!!! If downsizing occurs it will be from another direction but certainly not from the contractor. The contractor will only downsize if it means more money for them, if not no downsizing.

Anonymous said...

"These temporary instabilities are self correcting in the long term. The next contractor will determine that there is insufficient work for the size of the workforce, and a robust downsizing will take place"

If there is not enough work, how come we keep hearing about how we do not have enough people for the mission and that we need to hire more, we are reaching a critical shortage and so on. Seems like a bit of contradiction to me, so could you please explain. I am not saying you wrong it is just something does not add up.

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