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Sandia Livermore to merge with LLNL or shut down?

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By scooby
Sandia Livermore to merge with LLNL or shut down?

There's been several rumors going around at Sandia Albuquerque that the Livermore site will either merge with LLNL or be shut down.

Some of these rumors are coming from the report that Moniz is preparing: http://www.pogo.org/blog/2014/05/20140522-energy-secretary-announces-commission-to-study-national-labs.html

Does anyone at LLNL know if this is true?
June 15, 2014 at 10:02 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
Sounds like more paranoid BS to me. There will be a LANL, a LLNL, and a SNL/NM and SNL/CA for decades to come…
June 15, 2014 at 10:37 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
Best to shut Sandia CA down. For the work LLNL does, they do not need more staff that do not have PhDs.

Comments

Anonymous said…
Move the weapons work to New Mexico and combine the two Livermore sites to concentrate on an energy/climate mission.
6/16/2014 6:12 PM
Anonymous said…
I heard about this rumor too! In addition to the Sandia Livermore site being shut down, I heard that Sandia will focus more on weapons work. This was discussed *extensively* at the Sandia Albuquerque budget meetings in various departments.
6/16/2014 6:22 PM
Anonymous said…
So what exactly does Sandia/Livermore 'do'? I've been across the street for years and years but I still have no idea.
6/16/2014 7:41 PM
Anonymous said…
SNL/CA will become even less of an independent site in terms of infrastructure, which will continue to consolidate with LLNL. Yet SNL will want to have some footprint for engagement with LLNL, at least until NM LEPs suck the budget dry.
6/16/2014 8:49 PM
Anonymous said…
Sandia's original primary mission of providing engineering support to the weapons science lab LANL, prompted a similar need to establish a branch for LLNL. This was all before high speed secure internet, email, secure video teleconferencing, etc. Its a 90 minute drive from Albuquerque to LANL and a two hour plane flight from Oakland to Albuquerque.

So the real question that should be asked - can Sandia Labs carry out its primary mission of nuclear weapons stockpile stewardship and engineering support to both LANL and LLNL from a single campus in Albuquerque.

If the answer is yes, then how does the federal government justify maintaining SNL/CA.

Also, if I recall correctly, Boeing was reported as considering to put in its proposal for a bid on the SNL contract the idea of closing SNL/CA and consolidating its work at SNL/NM. Thus lowering the cost of the SNL contract and winning the bid. It will be interesting if the SNL RFP (which will include both SNL/NM and SNL/CA) will allow bidders this level of flexibility in their proposals and cost estimates.
6/17/2014 7:40 AM
Anonymous said…
Don Cook, deputy administrator for Defense Programs at NNSA, will hold an all hands meeting Wednesday, June 18, at LLNL. Since he is responsible for managing the NNSA nuclear security enterprise of laboratories and manufacturing facilities, maybe someone in attendance should ask him a direct question on this rumor.
6/17/2014 7:45 AM
Anonymous said…
SNLCA is for the whiny mediocrities who complain about dry air and high altitudes and the lack of culture in NM. Send them all to NM if they want to keep their jobs.
6/17/2014 11:48 AM
Anonymous said…
I agree with Anonymous on June 16, 2014 at 6:12 PM. LLNL and Sandia, Livermore will be better served (and will better serve the nation) with a civilian science mission.
6/17/2014 4:56 PM
Anonymous said…
The nice thing about this merger (LLNL and SNL/CA) is DOE/NNSA can use their money to remove East Avenue and put a nice amusement park between the two Labs or use the space to store the disassembled NIF "parts".
6/17/2014 5:05 PM
Anonymous said…
They do this every 5 years or so. A make or buy type review predicated upon DOE's bureaucracy. It is just a budget exercise...means nothing.
6/17/2014 5:13 PM
Anonymous said…
But wait!

I like the amusement park idea!
6/18/2014 2:12 PM
Anonymous said…
Here's a new development at Sandia Albuquerque. The Solid State Lighting EFRC (Energy Frontier Research Center) was up for renewal at DOE this year. This funding effort was an $18 million dollar effort with a lifespan of 5 years (2009-2014). As of June 18, 2014, it was officially announced by DOE that the EFRC renewal proposal submitted by Sandia this year was not renewed.
6/19/2014 4:17 AM
Anonymous said…
June 19, 2014 at 4:17 AM

LANL also lost one. The NNSA labs are not doing to well. I think a clear message is being sent.

6/19/2014 6:44 AM
Anonymous said…
NNSA labs cannot compete in the open Office of Science missions well, because NNSA don't care. Even the Office of Science labs have trouble competing with industry and academia when the competitions are fair and open.

If it weren't for the "User Facilities" base budgeting and various fenced funding, all the National Labs would be half their size and twice their productivity.
6/19/2014 11:01 AM
Anonymous said…
Office of Science also doesn't favor sending funds to the weapons labs.
6/19/2014 1:05 PM
Anonymous said…
Office of Science also doesn't favor sending funds to the weapons labs.


I am not sure if this is the real reason. I think the Ofice of Science does not like to pay an overhead of 220% on every dollar they sned for research, when a University only charges between 50 and 70%. Since we have pretty muched outsurces most of our engineering capabilities here at LANL, the argument that we are special and can go where noone else can go simply does not hold anymore.
And on top of this already high overhead, we are getting a 6% increase in overhead next FY.

What is especially galling is the fact that Bechtel was brought on board to ceate a more efficient system, with smaller overhead.

But under the new mgmt overhead has risen even faster than under the previous contract.
And considering all the broohah about lab screwups I do not see an improvement.

1. We cannot build a fence
2. We build a new lab (RULAB) and all the pressure lines in the building have to be rechecked and probably redone.
3. we sucessfully closed WIPP
4. We have people in upper managment, who are clearly ethically challenged.
6/20/2014 5:30 AM
Anonymous said…
1. We cannot build a fence

June 20, 2014 at 5:30 AM

"This is not JUST a fence, regardless, it was built ahead of schedule and under budget!".

Charlie "GQ" McMillan
6/20/2014 12:09 PM
Anonymous said…
"This is not JUST a fence, regardless, it was built ahead of schedule and under budget!".

Yes, in the true Orwellian sense. But now that I have that great mission leaflet, I feel much better.
6/22/2014 7:17 AM
Anonymous said…
You all complain about the "redundancy" of SNL/CA...conveniently neglecting the fact that the WHOLE POINT of LLNL was redundancy.

You may recall this guy named Teller selling Congress some line about "competing" weapons labs???

Look in the mirror before you blather like fools, and haven't you learned by now that the way to get out of this is to band together as labs, rather than fight over scraps that fall off the table. I realize that LLNL is in scavenging mode, but come on.
6/27/2014 9:08 AM
Anonymous said…
"So what exactly does Sandia/Livermore 'do'? I've been across the street for years and years but I still have no idea."

They used to do combustion research. But now that all electric cars are the rage, I wonder whether anybody cares anymore ? Comments from Sandia folks ?
6/27/2014 5:37 PM
Anonymous said…
I'm sure there is still research involving the kinetics of H + H2 and other such reactions. Those combustion types love that kind of stuff.
6/29/2014 10:31 AM
Anonymous said…
Three Vice Presidents of technical divisions at Sandia National Laboratories do not have a Ph.D.: Hruby, Walker, Vahle.

Adam Rowen a manager at Sandia Livermore does not have a Ph.D. either.

The previous 3 individuals are the first ever Vice Presidents without a Ph.D. in Science or Engineering to lead technical divisions at Sandia. A quick search on the internet shows that Adam Rowen went to a school in New Mexico.
7/08/2014 1:21 AM
Anonymous said…
You really do have a fetish about those guys, don't you? We've heard it all (from you!) before. Go away.
7/08/2014 8:39 AM
Anonymous said…
Thomas Jefferson did not have a Ph. D.
7/08/2014 3:29 PM
Anonymous said…
Hmm...I didn't know that! I wonder if Thomas Jefferson works at Sandia then...
7/14/2014 3:04 AM
Just and Engineer said…
There is a lot of interesting discussion here. I have a few comments from the perspective of a recently retired Sandian.


SNLL Persistence: Yes, there is good question as to whether Sandia Livermore still has a reason for being. It was part of the old cold war redundancy strategy: LANL+SNLA facing off against LLNL and SNLL in design competition.

On the other hand, a very natural question to raise in the post cold war environment is "How many nuclear weapons laboratories do we really need?" The answer is not obvious to me. (For many years it was said quietly at Sandia that SNL would never let SNLL close for fear that LLNL would then claim engineering responsibility for California weapons. That is probably not a threat any longer.)


I have been told by a friend at LLNL that SNLL is seen as "A combustion laboratory surrounded by some ancillary activities." Much of the problem derives from a history of SNLL management trying to maintain independence from both LLNL and SNLA. I do not think that the current situation is sustainable.

To me it seems that the choices are either increased investment and increased integration with SNLA or severe disinvestment.

SNL needs to make very hard decisions. What to do with SNLL is just one of them.

Research Environment at SNL:
Yes research money is tight and it will probably be much tighter under the next contract. With the end of the cold war, it is harder to make the case that our engineering capabilities demand a vibrant research environment. I think that a vibrant research environment actually is necessary to keep everyone thinking clearly, but this perspective is less a part of the culture than it was.

Advocacy is just as important as funding is to research. (They are actually not separable.) In an environment of overall budget crisis, it is difficult for management to focus on research advocacy as priority.

SNL Research Leadership:
I believe that the two SNL VPs responsible for research and technology base do have PhDs. More importantly, they are themselves accomplished researchers. I am referring to
Duane B. Dimos, Vice President, Science and Technology and to Julia Phillips, Vice President and Chief Technology Officer. Julia is a member of the National academy.
7/14/2014 10:56 AM
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