Actual post from Dec. 15 from one of the streams. This is a real topic. As far as promoting women and minorities even if their qualifications are not as good as the white male scientists, I am all for it. We need diversity at the lab and if that is what it takes, so be it. Quit your whining. Look around the lab, what do you see? White male geezers. How many African Americans do you see at the lab? Virtually none. LLNL is one of the MOST undiverse places you will see. Face it folks, LLNL is an institution of white male privilege and they don't want to give up their privileged positions. California, a state of majority Hispanics has the "crown jewel" LLNL nestled in the middle of it with very FEW Hispanics at all!
Comments
When I was hired at LLNL some 30 years ago as a engineer, you had to go through several hoops - multiple interviews, give a technical presentation, and as a career employee hire B111 actually had to sign off on the hiring package. Now its easier to get a job at the Lab (if there's funding for the position) than at Walmart.
Myself, I starved and worked my way to a MS. I was in a PhD program but at age 26 decided I was tired of living on a stipend, scholarship, and assistantships. After going to work for a DOE (now NNSA) lab, I'd observe that some of the dumbest people I've met have PhDs. Narrow in perspective and background, no sense of people skills or management skills, much less any practical hands-on engineering skills. All these gripes about the lack of a PhD ring very hollow to me.
Do I detect the pungent aroma of burning inferiority complexes?
October 15, 2014 at 8:29 PM
Non-PhD managers can be open to the BS line that PhD staff try to put over on them. If they haven't surrounded themselves with trusted PhD advisors in their organizations, they can unknowingly sabotage their own careers by listening to BS artists with PhDs.
Adam Rowen a manager at Sandia Livermore does not have a Ph.D. either.
The previous 3 individuals are the first ever Vice Presidents without a Ph.D. in Science or Engineering to lead technical divisions at Sandia. A quick search on the internet shows that Adam Rowen went to a school in New Mexico.
Steve Renfro deputy AD Nuclear Weapons, BS without PhD (also comes from a New Mexico school)
Look at the latest safety issue: "Door Foot Hazards". Don't LLNL employees know how to close doors, or do we need training. Talk about the dumbing down of a workforce.
Many line positions do not require an advanced degree.
Many technical positions do not require a baccalareate degree.
Many technical management positions do not require a baccalareate degree.
Just the way life works.
Kinda of surprized it needs to be written down.
It is also arguable the the most important "engineer" on the entire Shiva/Nova/Beamlet/NIF effort was a 300 series designer.
During the course of a 40-year careers people grow beyond the boundaries and limitations of their academic degrees, which only represent a very good start to the work of the first 5-10 years of their careers.
October 17, 2014 at 8:41 AM
True in general. However, they are also not separate positions or titles. The terms are used interchangeably at both labs, with some levels of management called "leaders," some "directors," etc., but all considered "managers." An exception is the Team Leader position at LANL, which is explicitly NOT a management position.
There is a huge difference between capriciously assigned LANSLLNS titles and earned leadership recognition. That was the point.
October 17, 2014 at 1:11 PM
English as a second language, huh?
One of the most important thing I was taught at that training was
Managers are not leaders, leaders are not managers.
It has nothing to do with degrees etc, but all with the job description. You don't need a PhD in physics to look after infrastructure, supplies, safe work practices etc..
Where it becomes problematic is if these people call themselves leaders. They don't lead anything.
A leader defines and finds a path forward in their field, in such a way that other people can understand the direction, agree with it and work together to get there. A leader in science does not need to force people to agree with them, they actually encourage discussions, and through new insight from these discussions can grow themselves.
At LANL, managers are not interested in having people agree on their proposed way forward, they get people to do what management wants only through threat.
October 18, 2014 at 6:33 AM
Actually it is through legitimate, delegated authority. Which by your definition, "leaders" don't have. Which makes them pretty much irrelevant to the mission of the organization. Bet you're a small project guy who thinks that because he gets his own piddling funding each year, he should be independent of mission and management.
If LANSLLNS leaders must take shelter behind terms like "legitimate" or "delegated authority", which are code for "command and control", the organization will not last in its current form anyway. It will devolve into an organization
of staff with no other career options. This undermines the goal to attract and retain the best and brightest, as if there weren't enough circumstances taking us in that direction already...
October 18, 2014 at 9:57 AM
I wasn't talking about "leaders," but managers (using October 18, 2014 at 6:33 AM's definitions). Last I looked, words mean what they say. If you see "code" everywhere, the diagnosis is extreme paranoia. Do you "take shelter" behind your drivers license and insurance card when a cop stops you? No, you use them as legitimately intended. If you think organizations like national security laboratories can function without hierarchical management structure, think again. Hint: you don't decide what your job is, the government decides what your job is. The fact that the money they pay you comes from the taxpayers doesn't change that. In case you fell asleep in civics class, this is a Representative Republic, not a Democracy.
You can bet whatever you want if I am small project guy...
That is irrelevant to the discussion and only a reflection on your own personality, when you have to try to denigrate someone who has a different opinion.
The last time I looked one of LANL's mission was stockpile work and not management. I have a hard time to see how someone with a bachelor in arts will lead the field and move us to a better understanding of how weapons work.
But you probably believe in science through milestones, so this might be a moot point.
Your small project guy.
A lab without a hierarchical management structure?
Who said this? Only you. Do you normally take an extreme position or take information out of context to validate your point of view? Oh I forgot, you believe you have legitimate authority to say or delegate whatever you wish.
I know a number great leaders and managers. But as these type of managers squeeze tighter in the attempt to maintain control, more employees vote with their feet to greener pastures. A sheepherder without the sheep is only a valid and prosperous career in LANSLLNS world.
October 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM
Sheer nonsense. Without contract milestones and metrics being met the contract will be history quite rapidly.
The comment was regarding sheltering of individual managers not the contract as a whole.
Regarding the contracts, you know milestones and metrics are malleable and in play. Do you think the NNSA field offices are the tail wagging the LANSLLNS dog?
How did the NIF failure to reach ignition and the incompetence for the WIPP mess impact the LANSLLNS contracts? Are they out for bid?
October 18, 2014 at 12:59 PM
Show me where the contract metrics specified NIF ignition at some particular time.
Also, the scores that would reflect the WIPP debacle haven't been issued yet. It may still result in cancelling, or at least competing the LANS contract.
October 18, 2014 at 6:33 AM
Excellent post on the difference between leaders and managers. Thank you.
In successful organizations, leaders attract and inspire highly qualified staff. Employees willingly implement the vision established by the leaders. Managers administrate policies. Some leaders are effective managers.
In unsuccessful organizations, managers control employees. Employees do what they are told. They do not follow a vision. Typically, there is no vision. The best employees often leave to pursue organizations that offer leadership and vision.
As for the other person's comment, most managers at LLNL (and I assume LANL) do not manage through "legitimate, delegated authority." I spend about half my time on unfunded mandates. Indirect-funded managers often require me to use programmatic funds for tasks that are not authorized by sponsors. This is not legitimate. It is illegal.
Your NIF point supports the idea of weak or no binding metrics or milestones. I guess we must wait and see on the WIPP fiasco. Is LANSLLNS "too big to fail"?
Like the baseball records of Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds, LANSLLNS needs a little asterisk * next to its self-proclaimed "for profit" status.
We were briefing our "new" line management on our work and project plans. This LLNS manager basically said we were doing excellent work but his job was to "repackage" our work - with as little effort and cost to the LLNS parent companies as possible - to make it look to NNSA that LLNS was making positive changes. The reward would be "free money" (his exact words in the meeting) to LLNS.
He explained LLNS would take credit for improving LLNL without expending any effort for work that we were already doing or planning, and would use the work to meet contract performance measures for achieving the new multi-million dollar management award fee.
I seriously thought about calling the DOE IG, but realized no one in DOE or NNSA would care.
That said, the lab is not a place for real doers. People voting with their feet is hemorrhaging out the lab's talent.
If the lab were truly interested in improving itself, it would invite back a few folks to sit on a panel for a workshop on "why you leave the lab". Tomas, of course, would be a special case.
That said, the lab is not a place for real doers. People voting with their feet is hemorrhaging out the lab's talent.
If the lab were truly interested in improving itself, it would invite back a few folks to sit on a panel for a workshop on "why you leave the lab". Tomas, of course, would be a special case..."
I agree with your points except the "if unhappy then leave" one. Being concerned with a potential funding manipulation or account fraud doesn't mean he was unhappy with his job right?
Tomas just happened to be without a chair when the music stopped. There are others around the circle. If you are a protected manager, and find yourself without a chair when the music stops, someone will just start playing the music again for you. No harm no foul.
Is there a new LLNS Workforce PDF/Spreadsheet that supports the "hemorrhaging"? In the Spring of 2013
there was a multi-year workforce document released just prior to the 2013 SSVSP announcement.
October 16, 2014 at 4:09 AM
The LANL Weapon Engineering (W) Division Leader (James Owen) also only has a B.S. from New Mexico State. While that isn't a "crime", what is, is that he spent 2-years at the University of Colorado on campus while the Lab paid his full-time salary only to return to LANL without his M.S. degree. When you talk to Owen, it's very clear he lacks technical depth and knowledge on weapon issues.
As a side perk of being the vehicle for political objective X or Y, you can not have a Tomas like career outcome for conduct that is far worse. You will instead be promoted.
October 19, 2014 at 9:51 AM
You just fall off the turnip truck? The phrase "it's not what you know it's who you know" was coined in the 1910's. You sound so surprised.
If you are in a very limited pool of candidates that can meet "LLNS political objective X or LLNS political objective Y", in career terms, you are in the "catbird seat" deluxe, and virtually impermeable to career stagnation, misfortune, misconduct review, or consequences for improper conduct.
Yes there are more than one phrase that describes the situation but your point adds nothing to the discussion.
October 19, 2014 at 1:29 PM
Neither did the "point" about the advantages enjoyed by those who can take advantage of their positions. Who knew?
Some who took advantage or abused their positions are gone and some doing the same or worse are still here (?). This is the key distinction overlooked in your comment.
October 19, 2014 at 7:42 AM
We can hold Bret Knapp responsible for all the promotions of non-PhDs (Benner, Renfro, Owen, Montoya, the list goes on-and-on) during his tenure at LANL and also single-handedly "canned" PhDs (e.g. Aubert). PhDs make Bret nervous and insecure since he couldn't acquire one, most likely due to less than average grades in college.
Adam Rowen a manager at Sandia Livermore does not have a Ph.D. either.
The previous 3 individuals are the first ever Vice Presidents without a Ph.D. in Science or Engineering to lead technical divisions at Sandia. A quick search on the internet shows that Adam Rowen went to a school in New Mexico.
Maybe another topic called "PhD free LLNS managers" would be more appropriate for this point of view.
You could train a high school graduate to pull wisdom teeth correctly.
The MIT/Stanford/Harvard B.S. folks don't come to the national labs. It's starting, or for a while, to become that way for PhDs as well.
The quality is decaying. No one can argue that point.
But hey, we have diversity! That'll fix it.
October 21, 2014 at 10:59 AM
How many science and engineering PhD programs teach management skills? Is a PhD a good indicator that someone will be a good manager? Despite what you may have been led to believe in graduate school, you are not necessarily capable of anything you want to do. There are as many failed PhD managers as successful PhD managers.
So attracting and retaining the "best and brightest" is a de facto futile goal?
October 21, 2014 at 7:40 PM
Right, so the choice is between 6th graders and PhDs? If PhDs are so good, why don't we require Nobel Prize winners? Fool.
POS
The labs are actually doing better now that the LLCs have taken over and use a business approach for running the labs, no PhD required.
October 27, 2014 at 8:04 PM
De-nile is not a river in Egypt.
Adam Rowen a manager at Sandia Livermore does not have a Ph.D. either.
The previous 3 individuals are the first ever Vice Presidents without a Ph.D. in Science or Engineering to lead technical divisions at Sandia. A quick search on the internet shows that Adam Rowen went to a school in New Mexico.