Dear Blog,
I've been working at the Lab for just under a year, and noticed a co-worker showing up for less than 6 hours a day, and no one seems to care. I've noticed others not making it to nearly 8 hours regularly also, but not so egregious as the other. Is this typical?
I don't know if I should speak up, just mind my own business, or slowly do the same?
Thanks,
Peon the Pion
45 comments:
Anonymous said...
Well, Peon the Pion, if nobody notices and nobody cares then why not join in and do the same? Besides, you can be pretty sure that management doesn't want to know about these types of pesky little problems. It only causes more headaches for them and looks bad for the lab and for them when they write their official reports.
Good luck and enjoy your new 6 hour work days! Glad I was able to help point you in the right direction.
January 31, 2015 at 7:55 PM
Anonymous said...
Peon the Pion
January 31, 2015 at 7:13 PM
Dear Peon, the less people show up for work than there will be less safety and security incidents and more bonus. The lab workforce is nothing more than a liability. If everyone works 6 hours than you reduce the liability by 25%.
January 31, 2015 at 9:31 PM
Anonymous said...
Ok then! LLNL workers have shown their true colors! What professional responsibility?? What dedication to career?? What pledge to support your family?? Nope, I quit since I don't like my boss!! Yay for you! You sick bastards.
January 31, 2015 at 9:45 PM
Anonymous said...
PP, has it dawned on you yet that you work for a gigantic corporate welfare system? If you have either brains or integrity, it isn't you you.
February 1, 2015 at 5:17 AM
Anonymous said...
It is GROUNDHOG day!
Weapons lab employees can emerge from their holes and look to see their shadows.
Do you cast a shadow? If so you might actually exist and can therefore make a difference. You can contribute to life!
If you have no shadow, you may not exist. Return to the hole from which you came and cogitate indefinitely on your options. Use this blog as a guide to your future.
February 1, 2015 at 6:18 AM
Anonymous said...
Peon the Pion
Welcome to the laboratory. Just so you know if you are an exempt employee you are only required to show up for 4 hours a day.
I would recommend not paying attention to others it will only get in trouble. Also expect to get retaliated for report abuse of power, safety and security violations. I learned the hard way and it was not fun.
"...Welcome to the laboratory. Just so you know if you are an exempt employee you are only required to show up for 4 hours a day..."
There are LLNS exempt employee time reporting guidelines available. Yes, exempt employees can not report leave if they are at work for more than 4 hours on a given 8 hour/day, 5 day/week schedule.
The discretion is based on effort > 8 hours/day without compensation for salaried employees among other reasons, and I think you find the language comparable to CA and Federal exempt employee reporting guidelines.
A read of the exempt and non-exempt descriptions will be of some benefit here. Abuse is another matter.
Most of the exempt (salaried) employees I work with put in their 40 hours. However, a few in the Org. take advantage of the system and rarely work a 40 hr. week, it's more like a 30 hour week. I know this because I see one person leave every Monday and Friday at noon. The others who abuse it have so many Doctor/Dentist/Home appointments every week it's ridiculous. My advice is to keep track of your own time and not worry about the time abusers. I found out the hard way that there's not a thing that you can do except complain, then you become the chronic complainer and the time bandits still go home early.
Pion,
It sounds like you took the red pill, congratulations! This is the new AmeriKa lie, steal, cheat, kill without remorse. Look at the head Yahoo lady allowed to take naps during the day and shows up late to meetings because she has a kid, no questions asked. Yes pion the 2hour bike rides, the endless queer month parties, the diversity days, afro-american days on and on and on. Now you have begun to understand where this will all end up. If you can't conform because you have a soul then please leave I did.
POS
I posted:
...Welcome to the laboratory. Just so you know if you are an exempt employee you are only required to show up for 4 hours a day..."
I should clarify that most people who are actual scientist and not managers put in a lot of hours. I have put in more than 80 hours in the past. I actually do not trust management so I never take time to go to a doctors appointment without taking sick leave.
I am concerned over peoples behavior, as is Peon the Pion. But I have learn nothing good comes from complaining. It will only hurt you.
February 2, 2015 at 4:48 PM
Dude, you really need to chill. If you're trolling, you're not doing a very good job of it. Makes me think you forgot to take your pills today.
There are about 40% of LANL that have been on 30 hours per week for years. The AWS is abused by many of the staff to get away with full pay for less than a full week, including all levels of employees from low level to Division Leader. Just one more example of the impact of bloated budgets for decades.
If you can't conform because you have a soul then please leave I did.
POS
February 2, 2015 at 4:48 PM
And good riddance!
If the co-worker is your boss, just leave 10 minutes after he/she does.
With such obvious abuses by the exempt, and given this stream, it seems acceptable. I'm hourly and find this attitude to be b.s.
If hourly were ever to mess with hours and time cards, we'd be escorted.
Although I doubt and hourly working more hours than what they report would ever be reprimanded.
My observations regarding full-time exempt employees are:
- 70% work 40 hours/week. Not a minute more. Not a minute less.
- 10% work a little less than 40 hours/week. For those not on AWS, a typical day is 7.5 hours, maybe 6.5 - 7 hours on Friday.
- 10% work significantly less than 40 hours/week. Some work 20 - 30 hours/week (or less). They are difficult to find, and always have excuses for not being in the office. They tend to be complainers. It's always someone else's fault.
- 10% regularly work more than 40 hours/week. Most work only a few hours more (< 45 hours/week), although a small number (2% or so) spend 60-80 hours each week in the office or at the other end of the work computer (e.g., they respond within minutes to emails sent Saturday evening).
February 3, 2015 at 9:32 AM
Unless you specify the sample size of your "observations" your numbers don't mean a lot. Are you saying these percentages hold across all organizations and programs? I seriously doubt it.
It's irrelevant how much time people spend in the office...
...what matters is what and how much they are getting done.
We pay people to produce, not to warm a chair.
We pay people to produce, not to warm a chair.
February 3, 2015 at 11:30 AM
Then "we" demand that accomplishments be documented, at least weekly.
What lab do you work at?
We are documenting our accomplishments every week up *multiple* reporting chains.
Even more reporting is NOT the answer.
We pay people to produce, not to warm a chair.
February 3, 2015 at 11:30 AM
False the profit comes from not
having security or safety incidents. The less people show up for work the less chance these will occur. This is the way the contract is written.
I have worked 30 hour weeks and 100 hour weeks. Probably averaged 50 over 35 years. Also identified personally initiated savings each year worth at least my salary and benefits. Pulled all nighters, worked 50 straight days, woke up in the middle of the night for weeks on end worrying problems not solved during daylight hours...blah, blah, blah.
Point is, you can't draw an accurate conclusion by watching only someone's attendance. Must also know his/her performance vs. expectations and peers. And medical and family situation. And how it varied over a career.
"Unless you specify the sample size of your "observations" your numbers don't mean a lot. Are you saying these percentages hold across all organizations and programs? I seriously doubt it.
February 3, 2015 at 11:04 AM"
This isn't a peer reviewed research paper here. My observations are just that. My observations. It is my experience based on working in several different programs over the last three decades. Most people put in 40 hours a week, like clockwork. A non-trivial fraction put in a little less. These are generally lower achievers but no big deal. A non-trivial fraction put in a lot less day in and day out. Most of them should be fired. Some people regularly work more than 40 hours/week. A few people - and it really is just a few - put in a lot more. The Laboratory is mostly a "9-to-5" shop. The parking lots are empty during non-work hours. And no. All these people aren't working from home during the evenings and weekends.
We pay people to produce, not to warm a chair.
February 3, 2015 at 11:30 AM
In theory, yes. In practice, not so much. I produce very little yet have a high salary. Having the skills to effectively work the system has its rewards.
But in general, people who work the most are the same people who produce the most. "Work life balance" doesn't exist at the most successful organizations. People who don't believe in the correlation between hard work and productivity are typically below average employees who need excuses for their low achievement and low pay. Or they're in management.
I used to be an over-achiever who worked 60+ hours every week. But not anymore. I see no reason to put in additional effort at a dysfunctional organization with an incompetent management that does everything it can to impede productivity. Productivity means more management oversight. So today I work less, produce less, but still get those above average raises. I'm the Wally of the Laboratory.
All these people aren't working from home during the evenings and weekends.
February 3, 2015 at 7:09 PM
But you don't know how many are. So again, your unsupported opinion derails your purported "observational" data. Seek out only data that supports your pre-existing opinion. That's called "confirmation bias." Bad "science."
OK, big shot. So you are saying that LLNL gets its worth out of the exempt.
Just keep in mind that LLNL has more science PhDs than a few major universities combined, plus resources like computation, lasers facilities, not available elsewhere.
How do we do compare.... Our codes don't agree with NIF shots.
Our codes don't agree with NIF shots.
February 3, 2015 at 9:58 PM
I had a brillant idea. Is it possible the NIF shots are wrong and codes are correct? Think about Livermore. Duh!
Can't be. NIF has best diagnostics ever.
With such obvious abuses by the exempt, and given this stream, it seems acceptable. I'm hourly and find this attitude to be b.s.
If hourly were ever to mess with hours and time cards, we'd be escorted.
Although I doubt and hourly working more hours than what they report would ever be reprimanded.
February 3, 2015 at 9:13 AM
With such obvious abuses by the exempt, and given this stream, it seems acceptable. I'm hourly and find this attitude to be b.s.
If hourly were ever to mess with hours and time cards, we'd be escorted.
February 3, 2015 at 9:13 AM
PhDs deserve the benefit of the doubt with regards to time cards because they can do their work offsite. Hourlies need to be watched with scrutiny, or we'll have a GM Union situation.
Let's get back to the topic.
Is there a difference between exempt and non exempt with reporting. And how egregious are the abuses. I've never seen anything like <6 hour/day person mentioned, but lots of 7 hour-ers who "won't make it up" when things get busy.
What about, and we all know them, the mothers who have seem to "regularly" leave for "kid is sick/not feeling well"
At TA-55, Jeff Yarbrough (Associate Lab Director for Pu Science and Manufacturing), declared that on Jan 5, 2015 EVERYONE working at TA-55 would go on a B-schedule so he could sit in RULOB and monitor what time folks were leaving work. It seems Yarbrough has time to literally sit on his ass and monitor people's departure time? Really! Even Yarbrough couldn't make this edict happen. What a farce!
Take a look at the steady stream of cars going down the hill almost every day starting around 3:30 pm. And these are people who are supposedly working 9 hour days. Guess they get up pretty early!
Labbies tend to make a special effort to announce to one another and to outsiders how "busy" they are, as if they are spending all their waking hours working and neglecting their spouses, children and pets. The objective reality is very different, and obvious if you look at what they actually produce. If you want to see "busy", go work in the valley, where 40 hours for an engineer or scientist is a sign of a slacker, and 50-60 hours are expected and common.
If you want to see "busy", go work in the valley, where 40 hours for an engineer or scientist is a sign of a slacker, and 50-60 hours are expected and common.
February 6, 2015 at 5:03 PM
Obviously you are talking about LLNL and not the "valley" below LANL, where there are no engineer or scientist jobs. The LANL employees from the "valley" of Espanola are the ones skipping out at 3:00 pm every day to get back to their tequila and cocaine stashes, and their "modular" mansions. You can only speak English so long before you go crazy, right, ese?
The LANL employees from the "valley" of Espanola are the ones skipping out at 3:00 pm every day to get back to their tequila and cocaine stashes, and their "modular" mansions. You can only speak English so long before you go crazy, right, ese?
February 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM
Wow, really! I work at TA-55 where I see a steady flow of cars into White Rock, it's the white guys or gals trying to catch their cheating wife (or husband) in bed with someone else in that "swinger community".
Talk about touching a nerve! This blog is becoming rediculus. The person commented on an observation and asked what should he or she do. Not about drug use, alcohol consumption or the never ending childish responses that dominate this blog. My response would be to ask in professional manner of course what is the policy? or contact an omsbud for better
direction.
February 8, 2015 at 4:05 PM
Go away. This blog does not support or appreciate reasoned and reasonable comments without rancor or defamation. Find a more civil place to vent your moderate views! You are not welcome here!
My response would be to ask in professional manner of course what is the policy? or contact an omsbud for better
direction.
February 8, 2015 at 4:05 PM
You can't work at the lab, or can't have worked at the lab for long.
The large stream of cars leaving Los Alamos everyday at around 3:30 pm is interesting.
Assuming these people are on the 9 hour schedule (M-Th) then they would have come into work at around 6:30 am. I've never seen a similar stream of cars heading up the Hill at this hour.
Something here is rotten. No one is apparently watching the time entries at LANL for accuracy. This is a case of probably employee fraud happening on a daily basis and no one cares.
To the above comments yes I do work at the Lab and no I have not worked here very long six years. Maybe a readjustment in your thought process would in order. But telling people to go away I stand by my comment.
Look up: Irony. Sarcasm.
Quite simple.
We need to go back to punch clocks.
Amen to that. Obviously there are those who cannot be trusted regardless of title.
Simple, Management and the NNSA and LLC's screw me, I screw them.
"Simple, Management and the NNSA and LLC's screw me, I screw them.
February 9, 2015 at 7:08 PM"
No, you have it all wrong. If you do not show up than there will be no security or safety incidents. The LLCs win, you win, we all win. So STFU about this already. We got a good scam going so ride for what it is worth.
If you do not show up than there will be no security or safety incidents. The LLCs win, you win, we all win.
February 9, 2015 at 8:15 PM
No, you all lose your jobs when DOE/NNSA declares all science PBAs missed and no award fee at all, and all the parent companies pull out of the LLC. If you think you'll enjoy living though that chaos, think again.
...all the parent companies pull out of the LLC. If you think you'll enjoy living though that chaos, think again.
February 9, 2015 at 8:27 PM
Best solution evar. The result will be, a reorganized NNSA or whatever it will be called will take over management of the labs, and lab employees will become government employees.
You want to work directly for the pinheads at LAFO? Yikes!
Lab exempt "worker bees" are under the time reporting microscope, while many LLNS "good old boy" TCP2 managers were systematically and blatantly burning through their thousands of accrued sick leave hours prior to their scheduled retirement, because those TCP2 sick leave hours would NOT be converted into service credit like retiring TCP1 employees. Bold criticism.
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