This BLOG is for LLNL present and past employees, friends of LLNL and anyone impacted by the privatization of the Lab to express their opinions and expose the waste, wrongdoing and any kind of injustice against employees and taxpayers by LLNS/DOE/NNSA.
The opinions stated are personal opinions. Therefore,
The BLOG author may or may not agree with them before making the decision to post them.
Comments not conforming to BLOG rules are deleted.
Blog author serves as a moderator.
For new topics or suggestions, email jlscoob5@gmail.com
Blog rules
Stay on topic.
No profanity, threatening language, pornography.
NO NAME CALLING.
No political debate.
Posts and comments are posted several times a day.
Tuesday, May 12, 2020
Ignition?
Without major hardware additions, will NIF ever reach ignition, or did they believe early on, it would take at least ~400 lasers to reach the ignition goal?
20 comments:
Anonymous
said...
They wanted a 10 MJ laser originally. I think that was called the LMF, laser micro fusion facility. Long history.
Lux, ignition is to be found. Explore the realm and the realm will reveal riches. In the end the legacy of NIF will not only be ignition but the thousands of trained minds that will be lead stockpile stewardship for the multiple generations. Perhaps on upgrade will be will be necessary just as rigging on a ship sailing across the Atlantic for the first time needs to be changed but any day we will hit land and we are too far out to see to return now. Ed Moses is the Capt Cook of our times. Amazing, fabulous.
Totally agree with 8:44 AM. Also note that ARPA-E has funded Rochester LLE Omega to do ignition at <1 MJ, so it is not only possible that NIF can ignite, but smaller machines as well. The key thing is to continue funding these efforts.
I also agree with 8:44 AM especially the bit about Capt Cook as after all Ed Moses had to be sacrificed on scientific shores by primitive people. The analogy is exact and one to one.
Ok if you don't buy the above argument, we are going to spend 3 Trillion dollars to keep people home I think we can spare a few billion for people to play with lasers. It keeps people paid, it keeps LLNL science going, it will kill a few people, so what is not to like? With trillions and billions to spend why not let some people play in sandboxes?
"I think we can spare a few billion for people to play with lasers"
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I agree fusion research should continue. How the funding is divided up is another question that requires impartial peer review.
Everything is political, fusion science is similar to the how critical literature departments work.
"I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I agree fusion research should continue. How the funding is divided up is another question that requires impartial peer review.
5/14/2020 3:41 PM"
If you give away trillions of dollars it is no longer possible to be cynical. A few billion for NIF would be fine in this case.
I think 1000 times more energy is a bit of exaggeration. With mix and 3D effects it’s probably 10x. I think I saw a NIF presentation that showed that type of scaling with HYDRA calculations.
According to my history knowledge, the weapons designers were not in favor of NIF. I heard they were told to get onboard. You would never hear Seymour Sack or any of the old timers say anything good about NIF. The laser people gradually took over LLNL. It was a big mistake and now it’s looking like LLNL, with its emphasis on weapons, not laser science, is better positioned for the future.
But it is more likely to be knowledge than " I have heard nothing". Not to mention that " I heard" could also mean I know for sure but I am not going give away who I am and what I know, as saying bad things about NIF could be considered by some as a bad move.
20 comments:
They wanted a 10 MJ laser originally. I think that was called the LMF, laser micro fusion facility. Long history.
Lux, ignition is to be found. Explore the realm and the realm will reveal riches. In the end the legacy of NIF will not only be ignition but the thousands of trained minds that will be lead stockpile stewardship for the multiple generations. Perhaps on upgrade will be will be necessary just as rigging on a ship sailing across the Atlantic for the first time needs to be changed but any day we will hit land and we are too far out to see to return now. Ed Moses is the Capt Cook of our times. Amazing, fabulous.
Totally agree with 8:44 AM. Also note that ARPA-E has funded Rochester LLE Omega to do ignition at <1 MJ, so it is not only possible that NIF can ignite, but smaller machines as well. The key thing is to continue funding these efforts.
The number of months that passes before someone posts another NIF post is definitely increasing. A good sign.
5/13/2020 4:41 PM
I also agree with 8:44 AM especially the bit about Capt Cook as after all Ed Moses had to be sacrificed on scientific shores by primitive people. The analogy is exact and one to one.
Ok if you don't buy the above argument, we are going to spend 3 Trillion dollars to keep people home I think we can spare a few billion for people to play with lasers. It keeps people paid, it keeps LLNL science going, it will kill a few people, so what is not to like? With trillions and billions to spend why not let some people play in sandboxes?
"I think we can spare a few billion for people to play with lasers"
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I agree fusion research should continue. How the funding is divided up is another question that requires impartial peer review.
People in the know say that the laser energy needs to be a thousand times larger.
"Impartial peers" don't exist.
"Impartial peers" don't exist.
5/14/2020 5:14 PM
Everything is political, fusion science is similar to the how critical literature departments work.
"I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I agree fusion research should continue. How the funding is divided up is another question that requires impartial peer review.
5/14/2020 3:41 PM"
If you give away trillions of dollars it is no longer possible to be cynical. A few billion for NIF would be fine in this case.
But, but, what about Z?
Echo chambers do exist but not "Impartial peers", probably true.
People in the know say that the laser energy needs to be a thousand times larger.
5/14/2020 4:40 PM
Name one.
Actually, people in the know say it will take 2-3 times more laser energy, or maybe less with direct drive.
The review this year should clarify a lot for the ignition program.
"People in the know say that the laser energy needs to be a thousand times larger."
Reply
"Name one."
How about name ALL that claimed or agreed NIF would have enough energy for ignition as constructed first.
I think 1000 times more energy is a bit of exaggeration. With mix and 3D effects it’s probably 10x. I think I saw a NIF presentation that showed that type of scaling with HYDRA calculations.
Actually, NIF has proven beyond a doubt that the only people "in the know" about ignition are experienced nuclear weapon designers.
According to my history knowledge, the weapons designers were not in favor of NIF. I heard they were told to get onboard. You would never hear Seymour Sack or any of the old timers say anything good about NIF. The laser people gradually took over LLNL. It was a big mistake and now it’s looking like LLNL, with its emphasis on weapons, not laser science, is better positioned for the future.
According to my history knowledge, the weapons designers were not in favor of NIF. I heard they were told to get onboard.
5/17/2020 1:59 PM
"I heard..." does not equal "knowledge."
"I heard..." does not equal "knowledge."
5/17/2020 5:11 PM
But it is more likely to be knowledge than " I have heard nothing". Not to mention that " I heard" could also mean I know for sure but I am not going give away who I am and what I know, as saying bad things about NIF could be considered by some as a bad move.
What is more probable.
NIF, achieving ignition
You dying of Covid-19.
Look at how much money we have spend on the lockdown, I think we can spend a few billion more on NIF.
Post a Comment