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Saturday, July 17, 2021
Should LLNL stay with LLNS?
Should LLNL stay with LLNS, or forward a non-profit like Triad in the next contract bid?
27 comments:
Anonymous
said...
“LLNL” doesn’t get a vote. NNSA will make that decision.
“LLNL” doesn’t get a vote. NNSA will make that decision
Obviously yes, and the NNSA selected Triad in part, to lower costs. The cost load of the for-profit LLNS or LANS vs a non-profit is and was self-evident. LANS and LLNS are a less progress for more money pathway, it is not a theory, it's a fact.
As a long-time reader of this blog, it is far from “obvious” that most posters understand that they are just contractors to the real owner of LLNL. Just like in the halcyon days of the UC M&O contract, few understood they were State of California employees working on a federal contract.
But, in fairness, most state university faculty and staff don’t understand that they are public employees with the Constitutional obligations that attend to that status as well.
You don't buy some items at the Five and Dime. There are things where the need for quality outstrips price. Weapons research ought to be one of those things. We should design and build the best we can with a judicious eye towards cost. That does not mean LLNL should have carte blanche in terms of expenditures. It just means that the bean counters sit behind the ADs, not in front.
The "experiment" of turning the labs into for-profit institutions has been an unmitigated disaster in terms of what the labs produce as well as how much. Adding in policies that are risk-avoiding, punishing elements of the work staff based on heritage, and the results were predictable - morale plummets, workers simply leave, brain-drain reaches epic levels.
Turning back the clock is effectively impossible. But for-profit management has to go. You could try an employee-owned subcontract or have 1-3 universities run it. The retirement benefits system has to be fixed. Whatever is selected no more making a fast buck at the expense of lab programs.
On this blog people some people have said that Bechtel was never really in the lead. I argue that the main thing Bechtel directed was the management culture. They do not have to put their people in charge to change the culture. People also fail to understand exactly how Bechtel makes money beyond the fee by various leveraging tactics. They have also sorts of tricks like cycling people through, putting people in they have no need for at the current time so they just planted them at the labs until a job they where better suited for showed up, charging all sorts of travel to the lab even though the lab is small part of the portfolio of trips. There are whole books on just how sleazy Bechtel is, go look up Sally Denton. The other thing is they added nothing of value. For example it was argued that Bechtel would improve business practices but they never did this.
Triad is way better than LANs, sure some of same characters from the past are still in management but even they have changed in demeanor and lost the nasty attitude that seemed to be so encouraged by the Bechtel culture. With Triad things seem to be just much more professional overall.
“ Triad is way better than LANs”, more professional? What a joke. The only people they changed were at the top and they are far from professional. The board and management are ridiculous. Really no change just window dressing.
“ Triad is way better than LANs”, more professional? What a joke. The only people they changed were at the top and they are far from professional. The board and management are ridiculous. Really no change just window dressing.
7/20/2021 11:51 PM
Not buying it.
From my perspective things have gotten much more professional. I agree that one issue is that many of the same mangers stayed on which is not optimal but they have definitely changed their tune. For example look at an email from one them before TRIAD to know and the whole tone is very different. There are also numerous policy changes that have made things better. I am not saying it is perfect but certain a big step up. Also everyone I know agrees to this statement. Besides some posts on this blog I have yet to hear anyone say things have not gotten better. So I have my personal experience, I have input from up to 100 or more people working at LANL versus you on a blog. So with that I simply cannot accept your assessment as an accurate description of the situation.
Objectively, Triad is better than LANS. It’s not a lot better, but they have turned the tide. Huge problems remain with the present structure and management team. LANL is like a body that has been hit by a grenade - parts are literally everywhere.
Objectively, Triad is better than LANS. It’s not a lot better, but they have turned the tide. Huge problems remain with the present structure and management team. LANL is like a body that has been hit by a grenade - parts are literally everywhere.
7/21/2021 7:42 PM
Very good summary, the problem is still the all these people from LANS who kept the same positions. Sure they seem to be reined in now and actually have to do a job but as long as these people are around there will alway be a danger that they could turn on Triad. The problem is that over time all the former LANS people could start getting control again, they could start to do what they can to sabotage Triad and bring some version LANS back. I am already getting a sense of o this. I would not be surprised that if in less than 5 years you see and effective versions of LANS trying to come back lead by the former LANS people and internal lab people who will be promised riches.
Glad to see Triad shills have joined the blog. Name one concrete thing that has changed. The best thing I have seen is Craig Leasure being moved out of management to the board of directors (Golden Parachute). As far as complaints, I have heard plenty including from this blog on the tone and direction of Mason and lack of direction within the PADs. We continue to move toward a pit production facility and away from science and development.
Just like in the halcyon days of the UC M&O contract, few understood they were State of California employees working on a federal contract.
V/18/2021 4:03 AM
For almost 30 years, I was completely aware of who signed my paycheck (always a good idea) and who provided my pension, which I am now thoroughly enjoying.
Livermore pays a California sales tax of 6% + an Alameda County tax of 0.25% + a "special tax" of 4.00% for a combined sales tax of 10.25%. A non-profit contractor running LLNL could save some portion of this taxation under 501(c)(3) status. The LLNS generous annual award fee and its non-501(c)(3) status, make this LLC a less attractive NNSA option compared to a non-profit contractor.
"direction of Mason and lack of direction within the PADs. We continue to move toward a pit production facility and away from science and development.
7/23/2021 2:50 PM"
You are correct that the big push seems to an emphases pit production and that is now starting to degrade science and development. I hear this rather often now as more money being diverted toward things that are or will be pit related. I think blaming Mason and TRIAD is a bit of a stretch. The growing emphases pit-production and de-emphases on more science related work is coming from NNSA and DOE not TRIAD. Mason has to do what they want. You may ask why is other money that is not marked directly for pit production is now being pushed in that direction but for all you know that is also a DOE directive.
Another question you could ask is does the nation really need this kind of pit production and has NNSA really thought this through? Or is the just some other "big" project and we need big project? I am not really sure because they have been talking about making LANL a pit facility for some time now. I would guess they have thought this through to some extent and believe new pits are necessary. It is just not clear how much science do they think the complex needs. Is it the same amount, somewhat less, or half of what we have now. One argument I have heard is that we have already done most of the science needed so we can safely reduce that much lower levels without much risk.
The other question is does this mean LANL will have two roles which will be science and development as well as pit production, or will LANL be dominated by pit production with any money for science just being given to the pit production side. Right now the complaints I am hearing is that various managers are shifting science money toward pit production but there is no clear reason why to do that at this point other than political positioning for personal management advancement. I agree that some clear path of just what the plan for LANL is would useful. If DOE and NNSA want us to just be pit facility, then make it clear, if they want LANL to be both a science and pit faculty lab then they should have clear path forward how to do this. Right now it is all vague so lower level management must guess which way the wind blows and hope they get it right and then they can move up the management chain. It seems like a lot of managers are guessing pits are going to rule the roost. They could well be correct but the rest of workforce is in the dark.
I can hear the arguments now, "Workers at Wallmart do not get to know the future of the company why should LANL workers!" The problem is that LANL people have a lot of very specialized skills that take many years to master so comparing them to Wallmart workers is not a good point.
Scooby this guy is taking over every thread with his garbage politics and ideology. I guess you can let him hang around with this stuff, but I among many others don't have time for his nonsense. I'll check in again in a few months to see if the blog is still here, but somehow I doubt it.
You could figure it out if you wanted to. You just don't want to because you agree with them.
7/27/2021 6:07 PM
Which poster ? I do not even see any politics on this thread.
Is it this post?
"Those who swore allegiance to the State of California knew exactly what they were getting into.
7/22/2021 6:58 PM"
I am not exactly sure what politics this is? I don't agree with this but I am not really sure the point of this post. Could you give us a hint as to which poster it is.
STATE OF CALIFORNIA - DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES OATH OF ALLEGIANCE AND DECLARATION OF PERMISSION TO WORK FOR PERSONS EMPLOYED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA STD. 689 (REV. 10/2019)
27 comments:
“LLNL” doesn’t get a vote. NNSA will make that decision.
No absolutely not. Anything with Bechtel is toxic.
“LLNL” doesn’t get a vote. NNSA will make that decision
Obviously yes, and the NNSA selected Triad in part, to lower costs. The cost load of the for-profit LLNS or LANS vs a non-profit is and was self-evident. LANS and LLNS are a less progress for more money pathway, it is not a theory, it's a fact.
As a long-time reader of this blog, it is far from “obvious” that most posters understand that they are just contractors to the real owner of LLNL. Just like in the halcyon days of the UC M&O contract, few understood they were State of California employees working on a federal contract.
But, in fairness, most state university faculty and staff don’t understand that they are public employees with the Constitutional obligations that attend to that status as well.
You don't buy some items at the Five and Dime. There are things where the need for quality outstrips price. Weapons research ought to be one of those things. We should design and build the best we can with a judicious eye towards cost. That does not mean LLNL should have carte blanche in terms of expenditures. It just means that the bean counters sit behind the ADs, not in front.
The "experiment" of turning the labs into for-profit institutions has been an unmitigated disaster in terms of what the labs produce as well as how much. Adding in policies that are risk-avoiding, punishing elements of the work staff based on heritage, and the results were predictable - morale plummets, workers simply leave, brain-drain reaches epic levels.
Turning back the clock is effectively impossible. But for-profit management has to go. You could try an employee-owned subcontract or have 1-3 universities run it. The retirement benefits system has to be fixed. Whatever is selected no more making a fast buck at the expense of lab programs.
Certainly almost any path that avoids Bechtel is better. That is the most toxic company I’ve ever had the displeasure of working for.
7/18/2021 7:10 AM
On this blog people some people have said that Bechtel was never really in the lead. I argue that the main thing Bechtel directed was the management culture. They do not have to put their people in charge to change the culture. People also fail to understand exactly how Bechtel makes money beyond the fee by various leveraging tactics. They have also sorts of tricks like cycling people through, putting people in they have no need for at the current time so they just planted them at the labs until a job they where better suited for showed up, charging all sorts of travel to the lab even though the lab is small part of the portfolio of trips. There are whole books on just how sleazy Bechtel is, go look up Sally Denton. The other thing is they added nothing of value. For example it was argued that Bechtel would improve business practices but they never did this.
Triad is way better than LANs, sure some of same characters from the past are still in management but even they have changed in demeanor and lost the nasty attitude that seemed to be so encouraged by the Bechtel culture. With Triad things seem to be just much more professional overall.
“ Triad is way better than LANs”, more professional? What a joke. The only people they changed were at the top and they are far from professional. The board and management are ridiculous. Really no change just window dressing.
“ Triad is way better than LANs”, more professional? What a joke. The only people they changed were at the top and they are far from professional. The board and management are ridiculous. Really no change just window dressing.
7/20/2021 11:51 PM
Not buying it.
From my perspective things have gotten much more professional. I agree that one issue is that many of the same mangers stayed on which is not optimal but they have definitely changed their tune. For example look at an email from one them before TRIAD to know and the whole tone is very different. There are also numerous policy changes that have made things better. I am not saying it is perfect but certain a big step up. Also everyone I know agrees to this statement. Besides some posts on this blog I have yet to hear anyone say things have not gotten better. So I have my personal experience, I have input from up to 100 or more people working at LANL versus you on a blog. So with that I simply cannot accept your assessment as an accurate description of the situation.
Objectively, Triad is better than LANS. It’s not a lot better, but they have turned the tide. Huge problems remain with the present structure and management team. LANL is like a body that has been hit by a grenade - parts are literally everywhere.
Objectively, Triad is better than LANS. It’s not a lot better, but they have turned the tide. Huge problems remain with the present structure and management team. LANL is like a body that has been hit by a grenade - parts are literally everywhere.
7/21/2021 7:42 PM
Very good summary, the problem is still the all these people from LANS who kept the same positions. Sure they seem to be reined in now and actually have to do a job but as long as these people are around there will alway be a danger that they could turn on Triad. The problem is that over time all the former LANS people could start getting control again, they could start to do what they can to sabotage Triad and bring some version LANS back. I am already getting a sense of o this. I would not be surprised that if in less than 5 years you see and effective versions of LANS trying to come back lead by the former LANS people and internal lab people who will be promised riches.
Just like in the halcyon days of the UC M&O contract, few understood they were State of California employees working on a federal contract.
V/18/2021 4:03 AM
Those who swore allegiance to the State of California knew exactly what they were getting into.
Glad to see Triad shills have joined the blog. Name one concrete thing that has changed. The best thing I have seen is Craig Leasure being moved out of management to the board of directors (Golden Parachute). As far as complaints, I have heard plenty including from this blog on the tone and direction of Mason and lack of direction within the PADs. We continue to move toward a pit production facility and away from science and development.
Just like in the halcyon days of the UC M&O contract, few understood they were State of California employees working on a federal contract.
V/18/2021 4:03 AM
For almost 30 years, I was completely aware of who signed my paycheck (always a good idea) and who provided my pension, which I am now thoroughly enjoying.
Livermore pays a California sales tax of 6% + an Alameda County tax of 0.25% + a "special tax" of 4.00% for a combined sales tax of 10.25%. A non-profit contractor running LLNL could save some portion of this taxation under 501(c)(3) status. The LLNS generous annual award fee and its non-501(c)(3) status, make this LLC a less attractive NNSA option compared to a non-profit contractor.
"direction of Mason and lack of direction within the PADs. We continue to move toward a pit production facility and away from science and development.
7/23/2021 2:50 PM"
You are correct that the big push seems to an emphases pit production and that is now starting to degrade science and development. I hear this rather often now as more money being diverted toward things that are or will be pit related. I think blaming Mason and TRIAD is a bit of a stretch. The growing emphases pit-production and de-emphases on more science related work is coming from NNSA and DOE not TRIAD. Mason has to do what they want. You may ask why is other money that is not marked directly for pit production is now being pushed in that direction but for all you know that is also a DOE directive.
Another question you could ask is does the nation really need this kind of pit production and has NNSA really thought this through? Or is the just some other "big" project and we need big project? I am not really sure because they have been talking about making LANL a pit facility for some time now. I would guess they have thought this through to some extent and believe new pits are necessary. It is just not clear how much science do they think the complex needs. Is it the same amount, somewhat less, or half of what we have now.
One argument I have heard is that we have already done most of the science needed so we can safely reduce that much lower levels without much risk.
The other question is does this mean LANL will have two roles which will be science and development as well as pit production, or will LANL be dominated by pit production with any money for science just being given to the pit production side. Right now the complaints I am hearing is that various managers are shifting science money toward pit production but there is no clear reason why to do that at this point other than political positioning for personal management advancement. I agree that some clear path of just what the plan for LANL is would useful. If DOE and NNSA want us to just be pit facility, then make it clear, if they want LANL to be both a science and pit faculty lab then they should have clear path forward how to do this. Right now it is all vague so lower level management must guess which way the wind blows and hope they get it right and then they can move up the management chain. It seems like a lot of managers are guessing pits are going to rule the roost. They could well be correct but the rest of workforce is in the dark.
I can hear the arguments now, "Workers at Wallmart do not get to know the future of the company why should LANL workers!" The problem is that LANL people have a lot of very specialized skills that take many years to master so comparing them to Wallmart workers is not a good point.
Scooby this guy is taking over every thread with his garbage politics and ideology. I guess you can let him hang around with this stuff, but I among many others don't have time for his nonsense. I'll check in again in a few months to see if the blog is still here, but somehow I doubt it.
Hey 7/26/2021 6:25 PM!
This guy? In an anonymous blog, it is hard to identify such "guys". What do you think we should do?
7/26/2021 6:25 PM
There are over a dozen comments here. Which specific comments are you saying are "taking over every thread"? This would be helpful to Scooby. Thanks.
You could figure it out if you wanted to. You just don't want to because you agree with them.
You could figure it out if you wanted to. You just don't want to because you agree with them.
7/27/2021 6:07 PM
Which poster ? I do not even see any politics on this thread.
Is it this post?
"Those who swore allegiance to the State of California knew exactly what they were getting into.
7/22/2021 6:58 PM"
I am not exactly sure what politics this is? I don't agree with this but I am not really sure the point of this post. Could you give us a hint as to which poster it is.
There was a time when State of California employees had to sign on to a loyalty oath similar to the ones the feds still take.
Apparently that ended at some point.
"There was a time when State of California employees had to sign on to a loyalty oath similar to the ones the feds still take."
In the political realm, do you really think absent a signed "loyalty oath", implied and expected loyalty is nonexistent?
Apparently that ended at some point.
7/29/2021 6:24 PM
Earlier than 1977. I never did that.
Earlier than 1977. I never did that.
7/30/2021 6:24 PM
It pays to read the fine print of what you sign when you hire in to a new cushy job.
STATE OF CALIFORNIA - DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES
OATH OF ALLEGIANCE AND DECLARATION OF PERMISSION TO
WORK FOR PERSONS EMPLOYED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA STD. 689 (REV. 10/2019)
Note the date, 7/30/2021 6:24 PM
7/30/2021 6:24 PM
It pays to read the fine print of what you sign when you hire in to a new cushy job.
7/31/2021 8:56 PM
Why? Completely meaningless and unenforceable stupidity.
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