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Wednesday, April 27, 2022
Free UC tuition
UC system to cover tuition for California residents who are Native Americans
What about DNA results that clearly show 20-50% Native Americans heritage that by no fault of their own are not acknowledged or documented by a particular tribe? Seems unfair to those people with DNA proven substantial Native American heritage. A paper proven lineage might have been reasonable 50 years ago, but today? Really?
I mean if you are a hispanic, such as Mexican American you are probably have a certain percentage of Native American lineage. But when they say Native American does it mean a tribe from the current United States or can one say that have Mayan background.
To be eligible for the free UC tuition announced, the individual must be a member of a Federally recognized Native American tribe. A Native American percent linage was not mentioned as a requirement for free UC tuition, only Native American tribe membership. This leaves Native American lineage criteria undefined. One could have 5% or 0% Native American genetic lineage and be eligible for this program through adoption, or other means to acquire Native American tribe affiliation status. On a related matter to Lab employment, the DOL states the following regarding "self-identification of race, gender, or ethnicity:
"May an employer override an individual’s self-identification of race, gender or ethnicity based on the employer’s visual observation?
No. OFCCP’s policy is that deference should be given to an individual’s self-identification and it should not be questioned or overridden by an employer based on the employer’s visual observation."
@3:32 PM How easy to be generous by using other people money!! If you want to help some good kids get into college you should suport them from your own pocket. I will have a great respect for you then.
What about free UC tuition for those with Mexican and Spanish lineage to the American Southwest and California that were supposed to be recognized as land grant owners as part of the 1848 "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo"?
"The Fate of the Conquered
The struggle for the ownership of the land in the stolen territories did not end with the conclusion of the war. Although the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo recognized the legitimacy of Spanish and Mexican land grants and offered the Mexican inhabitants in the ceded territories American citizenship, the influx of land-hungry and ruthless whites resulted in widespread oppression that sparked mass exile"
@3:32 PM How easy to be generous by using other people money!! If you want to help some good kids get into college you should suport them from your own pocket. I will have a great respect for you then.
I was a California taxpayer so I did support them as did other taxpayers support me when I was on scholarship to the UC. That was sort of the idea of public college.
Will any of the staff of UC or the Regents take a small pay cut to provide the funding for this free tuition, or will it simply be passed onto the taxpayer?. The fun of spending Other People's Money, it doesn't hurt.
"What about free UC tuition for those with Mexican and Spanish lineage to the American Southwest and California that were supposed to be recognized as land grant owners as part of the 1848 "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo"?"
What about all the natives that the Spanish enslaved, conquered and the land they stole in California before 1848? Can we get Spain or Mexico pay reparations for that? What about tribes that conquered other tribes? What about people of Japanese ancestry that where put in camps in the 40s? What about Chinese laborers who suffered in California.
" I was on scholarship to the UC. That was sort of the idea of public college.
4/29/2022 11:57 AM"
You are right the public eduction is in investment by the public that generally pays off so that good kids can go to college and than go get jobs or create jobs that improve the life of everyone in the state. The idea though is that it is for the kids or can do the best or get the most out of college. One gets a scholarship for showing one deserves a scholarship not because someone is simply in a group. Why should one group be given free tuition when there are other deserving kids that actually earned their way into college. It is so odd that they talk abut "white privilege" yet when you look into things like affirmative action and special programs for certain groups it would actually put a privilege on these groups. So there is no evidence for white privilege but there is plenty of evidence for actual privilege of other groups.
" I was on scholarship to the UC." And where you simply given that scholarship because of your group affiliation or did you do something to earn it?
"A Native American Traitor? Unfortunately yes, it happens ""
In fact almost all the current tribal lands where conquered multiple times from other Native groups. There is evidence for numerous groups of people that got completely wiped out.
Toltics, Dorreset, Clovis, and Anasazi, and so on are some examples.
" I was on scholarship to the UC." And where you simply given that scholarship because of your group affiliation or did you do something to earn it?
I won it on merit. I think I had two scholarships. Nowadays it would be considered affirmative action since I was white kid from California, not someone paying big $$$ from China.
You bring up past crimes and inequities in an attempt to imply that it is the responsibility of current people to redress them. No. The crimes of the past are in the past. No one who did not commit a crime should be forced to pay for his or her antecedents' crimes. Justice does not include punishment of descendants of earlier criminals.
"You bring up past crimes and inequities in an attempt to imply that it is the responsibility of current people to redress them. No. The crimes of the past are in the past. No one who did not commit a crime should be forced to pay for his or her antecedents' crimes. Justice does not include punishment of descendants of earlier criminals.
4/30/2022 5:39 PM"
The counter to your point is called generational wealth. If you look at the wealth handed from generation to generation whites have become very wealthy by passing on their wealth. For minority communities that have faced historical oppression they have had much lower wealth due to the oppression of what people. You may not have personally committed crimes against current minorities but the wealth you received from multiple generations was fairly earned by you and in many ways is blood money that was stolen from others. So yes you owe the other groups around you because your inheritance was stolen from their inheritance. You so called scientists should know about compound interest after 200-400 years that is a lot interest. In case you do not know what is going on get yourself educated
The case for reparations lays bare the reality that the distribution of American wealth is not an innocent consequence of individual fortune or effort. I am convinced that chattel slavery and apartheid, like genocide, are crimes of such magnitude that they place upon a nation an unassailable moral claim for restitution. But accepting that reparations are owed to Black America does not preclude other moral claims for economic reform and redistribution. And so it is profoundly uncomfortable for the holders of American property to consider its origins. We are, in the words of William Blackstone, so pleased with our right of property that “we seem afraid to look back to the means by which it was acquired, as if fearful of some defect in our title.
"Justice does not include punishment of descendants of earlier criminals."
By this reasoning, injustice against the victims of such crimes are permissible once the improperly gained assets of such crimes are passed on to the criminal's offspring? No token or fractional compensation required here? Hmm.
A simple story of the Blue, Green, and Purple people
Through treachery and overwhelming military force, the "Blue" people steal the land and the assets of the "Green" people. Subsequently, "Green" people and their offspring, are either exiled or forced into subservient labor to serve the "Blue" people.
A "Blue" person believes all of his assets and status and those of his "Blue" children, were earned with dignity, honor, and hard work. Not willing to entertain the idea that they ("Blue" people) were actually born on 3rd base at the expense of the "Green" people, the "Blue" people frequently lecture the "Green" people to not dredge up supposed misdeeds of the past. To minimize guilt, the "Blue" people want to believe any adverse actions they took against the "Green" people, were simply a brief detour to their own success, and not a forced trajectory not easily overcome due to stolen land and assets of the "Green" people.
Some time later the "Purple" people arrive on the scene and through treachery and overwhelming military force, the "Purple" people steal the land and the assets of the "Blue" people. Given the defeat of the "Blue" people the "Blue" people and their offspring now face the same post take over consequences as the "Green" people did earlier. Questions: How do the "Blue" people respond to their new status with respect to the "Purple" people? Do they actively request some form of repatriation for lands and freedoms seized by the "Purple" people, or just say, "it's all good"? Food for thought.
People who honestly and legitimately earned or inherited their wealth will never succumb to the predations of guilty liberals like you. I feel no such guilt and I guarantee you will not be touching my money. You have to defeat the US Constitution first. Good luck with that.
That was very profound I am sure no one has ever thought about those implications. Truly an NPR level intellect.
A couple of points.
(1) You forget about the Maroon people that that the green people killed and took their land, how do they come into play?
(2) This has happened over and over again since the beginning of humanity and is in fact occurring to some people in world right but not in the US or even in the West. In this way was history is a true rainbow of true spectrum of people being conquered.
(3) The Purple people have given the full rights and freedom to the Blue people. Perhaps instead of complaining that the Purple people are holding them back and blaming them for all their problems the Blue people should take advantage of the rights they now have to improve their positions.
(4) You know the whole analogy is total b*sht to begin with because it assumes everything the that the Purple people have today is only because of Blue people (not true) or everything the Purple have is taken form Blue people (not true). In fact most children of the Purple people never received anything at all from Blue people. In fact huge portions of the land of the Blue people where never occupied by anyone at all, or where not conquered but actually legally obtained by the Purple people. How many Purple people can you find that actually directly or indirectly benefitted from anything stolen from the Blue people? What about all the Purple people that showed up 100 years after all this, what did they have to do with anything?
(5) Would doing some form of repatriation for lands and freedoms seized by the Purple people, actually help the Blue people, or would in fact hurt them? Would you give just to this generation of Blue people or future generations? If a group of Marroon people show up do the the Blue people then have to give their reparations from the Purple people to these Maroon people.
Just some food for thought. In fact if you ever put any thought into any of this reparations approach it makes no sense whatsoever, falls apart or is beyond inconsistent.
Your analogy ( I am sure this is cut and past from somewhere and you did not come up with it) is a classic example of the midwit theory. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Midwit
Midwits are truly cursed to be neither blissfully dumb nor reap the benefit of being of superior intelligence or a genius. They can grasp general concepts, but are less capable of digging deeper, understanding nuance, or adapting quickly to complex problems, leading to an entire middle class of perpetually unhappy, often vaguely angry people.
"By this reasoning, injustice against the victims of such crimes are permissible once the improperly gained assets of such crimes are passed on to the criminal's offspring? "
What about offspring of the offspring of the the offspring. In other words where you draw the line? Also what if what if the assets improperly gained where themselves improperly gained?
To be more exact can you point to something that someone living today that after many generations has improperly gained? Consider a poor white person working at minimum wage in Sacramento what "asset" can you point to that this person improperly gained or even inherited? Large fraction of Americans do not get any inheritance, this is true of all groups.
"You have to defeat the US Constitution first. Good luck with that.
5/01/2022 5:10 PM"
Your precious Constitution is more fragile than you think. If you look at history all empires have ended there is no reason to think the US is going to be exception.
"I won it on merit. I think I had two scholarships. "
You did not win it on merit. You where born on third base so you had to do minimal work to get to home base and you think you hit a home run. That scholarship is not yours it was given to by those that came before you that stole it from others. The idea of merit is a myth.
"I feel no such guilt and I guarantee you will not be touching my money."
Probably the same was proudly proclaimed to the fictitious "Green" people from the "Blue" people, then again from the "Purple" people to the "Blue" people, and so on.
Actual history suggests it's all about superior force that precipitates new laws, new land ownership, etc. I think the purple, blue, and green references were an attempt to have a conversation without pointing a finger at a particular group since this storyline in reality, has repeated itself on a planetary scale.
Migration patterns strongly suggest the USA remains a popular destination for the most part, to hard working people from other countries. In my view, this means we are doing things reasonably well, at least as measured on a global curve. What are measured and thoughtful solutions to these disparities and what are completely outrageous solutions?
What are measured and thoughtful solutions to these disparities and what are completely outrageous solutions?
5/02/2022 12:02 PM
(1) Having free speech.
(2) Not having laws or rules that favor one group over any other group.
(3) Having police to protect property and people from criminal activity
(4) Not having a culture that becomes generationally dependent on government handouts
(5) Telling people not to commit crime, get at least a high school education, wait until your are married to have children, have a job. Trust me on #5 if you do that you will do just fine in society and will probably succeed.
(6) Do the opposite of whatever any Vox or Huff article says.
(7) do not worry about disparities so much because it leads to having to drag certain groups down, concentrate on making sure that all groups have the same rights. By the way making sure bad parts of town have more police will help. Defund the police movements will hurt poor neighborhoods. Think about it are you more likely to be killed or robbed in neighborhood where they cut the police force in half or one where they did not.
(8) Math, math, math. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Know math, statistics and logic, and never trust anything being told to you about oppression, disparities, discrimination, police violence, racism, systemic systems of institutional oppression until you have hard numbers, statistics and logic to back it up. A simple fact if this place is so bad how come we have so many people coming from Africa, South America, Asia, and Europe who want so badly to have the opportunities that America has to offer.
These are not really novel and everybody sort of knows that that these are true.
26 comments:
What about DNA results that clearly show 20-50% Native Americans heritage that by no fault of their own are not acknowledged or documented by a particular tribe? Seems unfair to those people with DNA proven substantial Native American heritage. A paper proven lineage might have been reasonable 50 years ago, but today? Really?
At what percent?
I mean if you are a hispanic, such as Mexican American you are probably have a certain percentage of Native American lineage. But when they say Native American does it mean a tribe from the current United States or can one say that have Mayan background.
Leave it to California to come up with a woke policy that is racist by definition.
To be eligible for the free UC tuition announced, the individual must be a member of a Federally recognized Native American tribe. A Native American percent linage was not mentioned as a requirement for free UC tuition, only Native American tribe membership. This leaves Native American lineage criteria undefined. One could have 5% or 0% Native American genetic lineage and be eligible for this program through adoption, or other means to acquire Native American tribe affiliation status. On a related matter to Lab employment, the DOL states the following regarding "self-identification of race, gender, or ethnicity:
"May an employer override an individual’s self-identification of race, gender or ethnicity based on the employer’s visual observation?
No. OFCCP’s policy is that deference should be given to an individual’s self-identification and it should not be questioned or overridden by an employer based on the employer’s visual observation."
I have no problem with this. I hope it helps some good kids get into college.
@3:32 PM How easy to be generous by using other people money!! If you want to help some good kids get into college you should suport them from your own pocket. I will have a great respect for you then.
What about free UC tuition for those with Mexican and Spanish lineage to the American Southwest and California that were supposed to be recognized as land grant owners as part of the 1848 "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo"?
"The Fate of the Conquered
The struggle for the ownership of the land in the stolen territories did not end with the conclusion of the war. Although the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo recognized the legitimacy of Spanish and Mexican land grants and offered the Mexican inhabitants in the ceded territories American citizenship, the influx of land-hungry and ruthless whites resulted in widespread oppression that sparked mass exile"
@3:32 PM How easy to be generous by using other people money!! If you want to help some good kids get into college you should suport them from your own pocket. I will have a great respect for you then.
I was a California taxpayer so I did support them as did other taxpayers support me when I was on scholarship to the UC. That was sort of the idea of public college.
Will any of the staff of UC or the Regents take a small pay cut to provide the funding for this free tuition, or will it simply be passed onto the taxpayer?. The fun of spending Other People's Money, it doesn't hurt.
"What about free UC tuition for those with Mexican and Spanish lineage to the American Southwest and California that were supposed to be recognized as land grant owners as part of the 1848 "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo"?"
What about all the natives that the Spanish enslaved, conquered and the land they stole in California before 1848? Can we get Spain or Mexico pay reparations for that? What about tribes that conquered other tribes? What about people of Japanese ancestry that where put in camps in the 40s? What about Chinese laborers who suffered in California.
I have no problem with this. I hope it helps some good kids get into college.
4/28/2022 3:32 PM
There are lots of ways for good kids to get into college, why just make free from one group but not other groups?
A Native American Traitor? Unfortunately yes, it happens
“In 1807, the Cherokee national council declared Doublehead a traitor for selling Cherokee land without council approval.”
http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/1565
" I was on scholarship to the UC. That was sort of the idea of public college.
4/29/2022 11:57 AM"
You are right the public eduction is in investment by the public that generally pays off so that good kids can go to college and than go get jobs or create jobs that improve the life of everyone in the state. The idea though is that it is for the kids or can do the best or get the most out of college. One gets a scholarship for showing one deserves a scholarship not because someone is simply in a group. Why should one group be given free tuition when there are other deserving kids that actually earned their way into college. It is so odd that they talk abut "white privilege" yet when you look into things like affirmative action and special programs for certain groups it would actually put a privilege on these groups. So there is no evidence for white privilege but there is plenty of evidence for actual privilege of other groups.
" I was on scholarship to the UC." And where you simply given that scholarship because of your group affiliation or did you do something to earn it?
"A Native American Traitor? Unfortunately yes, it happens ""
In fact almost all the current tribal lands where conquered multiple times from other Native groups. There is evidence for numerous groups of people that got completely wiped out.
Toltics, Dorreset, Clovis, and Anasazi, and so on are some examples.
" I was on scholarship to the UC." And where you simply given that scholarship because of your group affiliation or did you do something to earn it?
I won it on merit. I think I had two scholarships. Nowadays it would be considered affirmative action since I was white kid from California, not someone paying big $$$ from China.
4/29/2022 2:27 PM
You bring up past crimes and inequities in an attempt to imply that it is the responsibility of current people to redress them. No. The crimes of the past are in the past. No one who did not commit a crime should be forced to pay for his or her antecedents' crimes. Justice does not include punishment of descendants of earlier criminals.
"You bring up past crimes and inequities in an attempt to imply that it is the responsibility of current people to redress them. No. The crimes of the past are in the past. No one who did not commit a crime should be forced to pay for his or her antecedents' crimes. Justice does not include punishment of descendants of earlier criminals.
4/30/2022 5:39 PM"
The counter to your point is called generational wealth. If you look at the wealth handed from generation to generation whites have become very wealthy by passing on their wealth. For minority communities that have faced historical oppression they have had much lower wealth due to the oppression of what people. You may not have personally committed crimes against current minorities but the wealth you received from multiple generations was fairly earned by you and in many ways is blood money that was stolen from others. So yes you owe the other groups around you because your inheritance was stolen from their inheritance. You so called scientists should know about compound interest after 200-400 years that is a lot interest. In case you do not know what is going on get yourself educated
https://www.epi.org/publication/receiving-an-inheritance-helps-white-families-more-than-black-families/
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/
The case for reparations lays bare the reality that the distribution of American wealth is not an innocent consequence of individual fortune or effort. I am convinced that chattel slavery and apartheid, like genocide, are crimes of such magnitude that they place upon a nation an unassailable moral claim for restitution. But accepting that reparations are owed to Black America does not preclude other moral claims for economic reform and redistribution. And so it is profoundly uncomfortable for the holders of American property to consider its origins. We are, in the words of William Blackstone, so pleased with our right of property that “we seem afraid to look back to the means by which it was acquired, as if fearful of some defect in our title.
"Justice does not include punishment of descendants of earlier criminals."
By this reasoning, injustice against the victims of such crimes are permissible once the improperly gained assets of such crimes are passed on to the criminal's offspring? No token or fractional compensation required here? Hmm.
A simple story of the Blue, Green, and Purple people
Through treachery and overwhelming military force, the "Blue" people steal the land and the assets of the "Green" people. Subsequently, "Green" people and their offspring, are either exiled or forced into subservient labor to serve the "Blue" people.
A "Blue" person believes all of his assets and status and those of his "Blue" children, were earned with dignity, honor, and hard work. Not willing to entertain the idea that they ("Blue" people) were actually born on 3rd base at the expense of the "Green" people, the "Blue" people frequently lecture the "Green" people to not dredge up supposed misdeeds of the past. To minimize guilt, the "Blue" people want to believe any adverse actions they took against the "Green" people, were simply a brief detour to their own success, and not a forced trajectory not easily overcome due to stolen land and assets of the "Green" people.
Some time later the "Purple" people arrive on the scene and through treachery and overwhelming military force, the "Purple" people steal the land and the assets of the "Blue" people. Given the defeat of the "Blue" people the "Blue" people and their offspring now face the same post take over consequences as the "Green" people did earlier. Questions: How do the "Blue" people respond to their new status with respect to the "Purple" people? Do they actively request some form of repatriation for lands and freedoms seized by the "Purple" people, or just say, "it's all good"? Food for thought.
4/30/2022 7:53 PM
People who honestly and legitimately earned or inherited their wealth will never succumb to the predations of guilty liberals like you. I feel no such guilt and I guarantee you will not be touching my money. You have to defeat the US Constitution first. Good luck with that.
5/01/2022 9:01 AM
That was very profound I am sure no one has ever thought about those implications. Truly an NPR level intellect.
A couple of points.
(1) You forget about the Maroon people that that the green people killed and took their land, how do they come into play?
(2) This has happened over and over again since the beginning of humanity and is in fact occurring to some people in world right but not in the US or even in the West. In this way was history is a true rainbow of true spectrum of people being conquered.
(3) The Purple people have given the full rights and freedom to the Blue people. Perhaps instead of complaining that the Purple people are holding them back and blaming them for all their problems the Blue people should take advantage of the rights they now have to improve their positions.
(4) You know the whole analogy is total b*sht to begin with because it assumes everything the that the Purple people have today is only because of Blue people (not true) or everything the Purple have is taken form Blue people (not true). In fact most children of the Purple people never received anything at all from Blue people. In fact huge portions of the land of the Blue people where never occupied by anyone at all, or where not conquered but actually legally obtained by the Purple people. How many Purple people can you find that actually directly or indirectly benefitted from anything stolen from the Blue people? What about all the Purple people that showed up 100 years after all this, what did they have to do with anything?
(5) Would doing some form of repatriation for lands and freedoms seized by the Purple people, actually help the Blue people, or would in fact hurt them? Would you give just to this generation of Blue people or future generations? If a group of Marroon people show up do the the Blue people then have to give their reparations from the Purple people to these Maroon people.
Just some food for thought. In fact if you ever put any thought into any of this reparations approach it makes no sense whatsoever, falls apart or is beyond inconsistent.
Your analogy ( I am sure this is cut and past from somewhere and you did not come up with it) is a classic example of the midwit theory. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Midwit
Midwits are truly cursed to be neither blissfully dumb nor reap the benefit of being of superior intelligence or a genius. They can grasp general concepts, but are less capable of digging deeper, understanding nuance, or adapting quickly to complex problems, leading to an entire middle class of perpetually unhappy, often vaguely angry people.
"By this reasoning, injustice against the victims of such crimes are permissible once the improperly gained assets of such crimes are passed on to the criminal's offspring? "
What about offspring of the offspring of the the offspring. In other words where you draw the line? Also what if what if the assets improperly gained where themselves improperly gained?
To be more exact can you point to something that someone living today that after many generations has improperly gained?
Consider a poor white person working at minimum wage in Sacramento what "asset" can you point to that this person improperly gained or even inherited? Large fraction of Americans do not get any inheritance, this is true of all groups.
"You have to defeat the US Constitution first. Good luck with that.
5/01/2022 5:10 PM"
Your precious Constitution is more fragile than you think. If you look at history all empires have ended there is no reason to think the US is going to be exception.
"I won it on merit. I think I had two scholarships. "
You did not win it on merit. You where born on third base so you had to do minimal work to get to home base and you think you hit a home run. That scholarship is not yours it was given to by those that came before you that stole it from others. The idea of merit is a myth.
"I feel no such guilt and I guarantee you will not be touching my money."
Probably the same was proudly proclaimed to the fictitious "Green" people from the "Blue" people, then again from the "Purple" people to the "Blue" people, and so on.
Actual history suggests it's all about superior force that precipitates new laws, new land ownership, etc. I think the purple, blue, and green references were an attempt to have a conversation without pointing a finger at a particular group since this storyline in reality, has repeated itself on a planetary scale.
Migration patterns strongly suggest the USA remains a popular destination for the most part, to hard working people from other countries. In my view, this means we are doing things reasonably well, at least as measured on a global curve. What are measured and thoughtful solutions to these disparities and what are completely outrageous solutions?
What are measured and thoughtful solutions to these disparities and what are completely outrageous solutions?
5/02/2022 12:02 PM
(1) Having free speech.
(2) Not having laws or rules that favor one group over any other group.
(3) Having police to protect property and people from criminal activity
(4) Not having a culture that becomes generationally dependent on government handouts
(5) Telling people not to commit crime, get at least a high school education, wait until your are married to have children, have a job. Trust me on #5 if you do that you will do just fine in
society and will probably succeed.
(6) Do the opposite of whatever any Vox or Huff article says.
(7) do not worry about disparities so much because it leads to having to drag certain groups down, concentrate on making sure that all groups have the same rights. By the way making sure bad parts of town have more police will help. Defund the police movements will hurt poor neighborhoods. Think about it are you more likely to be killed or robbed in neighborhood where
they cut the police force in half or one where they did not.
(8) Math, math, math. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Know math, statistics and logic, and never trust anything being told to you about oppression, disparities, discrimination, police violence, racism, systemic systems of institutional oppression until you have hard numbers, statistics and logic to back it up. A simple fact if this place is so bad how come we have so many people coming from Africa, South America, Asia, and Europe who want so badly to have the
opportunities that America has to offer.
These are not really novel and everybody sort of knows that that these are true.
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