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Tuesday, October 23, 2018
Winter shutdown
I just want to know if we'll have a winter shutdown for December 2019? The new LANL calendars were printed up and noticed there is no winter closure that we normally have.
41 comments:
Anonymous
said...
The calendars aren’t printed up yet. And past calendars have not shown the winter break.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is no winter shutdown this year. Wasn't one of Holiday's we lost is Energy Savings Day, which occurs during the Winter Holiday? Triad can no longer justify the week long winter holiday shut down. Work, work, work...
Triad has already stated there will be no changes to the winter closure this year. In fact, it was officially announced (over a month ago), with Christmas falling on Tuesday, LANL will be closed from Monday, December 24th through Tuesday, January 1st. And December 26th, Energy Savings Day, will still be treated as a holiday in 2018.
All the LANL calendars have shown the Winter closure for the past 25 years that I have worked here. 2018 we lost energy conservation day which was a holiday. We have to use 4 vacation days instead of 3 for the winter shutdown. 2019 the new LANL calendars have been printed and there is no blocked winter closure for end of December which I'm guessing would be 12/26, 12/27, 12/30, 12/31, 1/1 holiday and 1/2 return back to work.
The winter shutdown was originally justified as an energy saving measure during one of the National energy crises. LASL elected to force employees to use some of their hard-earned vacation to do it.In contrast, Sandia just gathered up some of the more inconsequential holidays and rescheduled them for that week, letting the employees use their vacation as they wish. If TRIAD finally does away with forced donation of vacation to support an over-hyped political agenda, good on them !
What Triad really needs to do is get rid of the 9-80, it is totally abused by many sections of the lab. Now I know some sections do put in the hours such as the manufacturing sections but everything else is a complete joke. The lab is empty at 8AM and the cars are rolling at 3pm and by 5pm it is empty and Fridays it is a ghost town. Even with this people are freaking out that they lost two holidays. The place is just bizarre.
So Triad needs to get rid of this or actually start enforcing rules. You simply cannot get any paper work done before 10AM, after 3pm, most Thursdays and every Friday. It is like working in a 3rd world country at times. I know some people don't care and happy if nothing gets done but there are still lots of hard workers who take pride in the job who just want something functions.
I'm stunned about wanting to get rid of the 9-80. I'm one of those folks who arrive really early, before 5.30 am early. There are people already working by then. Having flexible hours allows a happy, more productive workforce. It also encourages a more diverse workforce who have obligations outside of work.
I don't know what paper work you are referring to. The only issue I have seen is when there is a network problem and getting replacement parts. Even then, it's still fairly speedy fix. However, I don't really do paper work. I work.
Most people I know work more then their 36/44 hours. Change divisions or find a job that requires less pushing of paper :)
Ever travel up the hill at around 3:30 or 4:00 pm? The downhill traffic, towards the valley, is tremendous. All these people started work at 6:30 am on their 9/80 schedule? I highly doubt it. Even if they did, where is the customer service at 5:00 pm? Answer, as stated above, is "nonexistent." 9/80 abuse has to be stopped.
I love having every other Friday off. I would not want to see this flexibility taken away. I work my required hours. I arrive to work on or before my start time and I leave for the day when I'm supposed to. Most employees do that in the building I work in. If employees are abusing their arrival/departure times, the managers should be following up on that. Ultimately it is the responsibility of the manager to see to it that his/her employees are submitting their time correctly. Time fraud is grounds for termination. Flexibility in today's workforce is helpful for everyone. I do believe that both LANS and now Triad have said they want to promote flexibility in the workplace to make working at LANL more attractive to workers with growing families and other obligations outside of work.
The newly revised "Holidays" policy was issued by TRIAD today. It states the "The Laboratory is closed between the Christmas and New Year's holidays each year." So, it looks like there will be no change there... for now.
Customer service at 5pm is done for the day. Most organizations publish their customer service hours. If you can't be organized to call before 5pm, perhaps you need to come to work a little earlier. Or call at 8am the next day. Yes, some problems arise after 5pm, I suggest working on something else and/or going home. Planning ahead helps too.
Watching other folks time and being bitter about it is not healthy. Lots of folks work part-time, catch up with work from home, and just have more flexible jobs. It's not your job to police people you know nothing about.
I am sincerely sorry that you are upset with other's schedules. Perhaps it's time to find a place that you find that suits you better?
If you are working customer service and are "done" at 5:00 pm, when are you starting customer service, and why is the total less than 9 hours on Mon - Thurs.?? If everyone else has to work 9 hours, why don't you? Why must everyone else "plan ahead" for your decision to quit your job early every day?
Customer service ends at 3pm Monday through Wed, it ends on 12pm Thursdays and does not exist on Fridays. It also starts at 9AM not 8AM. This is simply a fact of life at LANL. Of course there are exceptions but you will be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with this assessment of the work hours at LANL.
All people are asking is that LANL operates at least like every other first world operation in which things can be done 8 hours a day during.
The 8-5pm does not even add up in terms of hours if you are on the 9-80. 8-5pm is considered a standard 8 hour week in most places since there is a 1/2 hour lunch break and two other 15-20min lunch break. In principle one could be able to get costumer service done either at 7 AM or 6pm since the lab should be half full.
Again the lab is clearing out by 3:30pm every day, so the idea that people are even working 8 hours is not true. Also how is it that the lab only has 1/3-1/4 of the people on Fridays not to mention it is completly empty at 3pm every Friday. Everybody knows the 9-80 is completely abused, are you seriously saying it is not?
"I love having every other Friday off. I would not want to see this flexibility taken away. I work my required hours. I arrive to work on or before my start time and I leave for the day when I'm supposed to"
I am glad you work your required hours, but be very honest and ask yourself this, is everyone doing the same as your or is there a significant amount of people who are abusing the systems. Another questions to ask is if the abuse has increased over the last five years? Recently LANS put out a plot showing the LANL is not at an all time low in terms of incidences and injuries, which is good however I contend that is directly proportional to the sum of the hours being worked and that there has been a decrease in the number of insight workhorse which is the reason for the decrease in the injury rate.
I am sick of bitter people making the people who like flexible hours as their escape goats. Just because you waited all day until you put in your support request and it cannot be done because it is so last second is you problem not the problem of the productive people who on occasion like to have a Friday off. I agree with 8:20 AM perhaps it is time for you to find another job but you will still find find you should mind your own business and not care about how others people use their work hours. It is not your business, it is not your concern, and it has no effect whatsoever on you. On the other hand your negative attitude effects everyone around you.
I'm happy to see that the revised policy that was issued 11/1/18 shows the official holidays and indicates the laboratory will have a winter closure. This appears to be for the 2019 calendar year moving forward. There is no Columbus Day or Energy Conservation Day holidays. I think everyone was aware those were the two holidays that got axed.
3.2 Laboratory Holidays Laboratory holidays: New Year’s Day Veteran’s Day Martin Luther King Jr. Day Thanksgiving Day Presidents’ Day Friday after Thanksgiving Memorial Day Christmas Day Independence Day Labor Day Holidays declared by the President of the United States for the nation
3.3 Winter Closure The Laboratory is closed between the Christmas and New Year’s holidays each year. The actual period of closure varies with the days on which the holidays occur, but the closure normally includes five or more weekdays.
3.3.1 Conditions of Closure Nonexempt employees are prohibited from working on-site or at home during the closure unless an exception has been granted. Exempt employees are prohibited from working on-site unless an exception has been granted. Exceptions: When exceptions are necessary for essential services during the closure period, the manager must submit a written request before closure begins to the division-level manager for approval.
3.3.2 Reporting Attendance During Closure Employees may use vacation or leave without pay in combination with the declared holidays to cover the days the Laboratory is closed. An employee who uses leave without pay during closure receives holiday pay if the employee is in pay status on the last scheduled workday before closure or the first
Well, looking at various hours of all of the service organizations, it appears they all are open for at least 9 hours a day M-Th. Except the badge office, which just has strange hours. Just because these organizations aren't open for service, doesn't mean that they do not have other work. I suggest you plan ahead to work within these organizations posted hours - it's like going to a store or a restaurant. One does plan to use services.
BTW I don't work for a service organization. I just never have trouble getting service.
It appears you just are not happy with other people's work ethics or with posted hours of service.
Mr. Time cop is back policing hours of the workforce. I'm really tired of hearing it. As 2:17 pm said previously, this is a management problem so don't penalize the entire workforce because of areas that are allegedly not working. To be competitive with academics and industry, LANL needs to offer flexible work schedules. It's called work-life balance. If people are abusing 9-80s, then they will abuse 5-8s. Changing the schedule won't matter.
Sure the posted hours may say 9 but try getting hold of one these at 3:30 pm, 8:30AM or any Friday, and you get nothing.
" I just never have trouble getting service. "
I am not buying it. Literally everyone I know has issues with services particularly the working hours so it is rather odd that you would be one exception.
Flexible time could work if done right but at LANL it is abused and everyone knows this, I suspect you know this as well.
So your attitude about the shortened-hours customer service job you supposedly do is "It is not your business, it is not your concern, and it has no effect whatsoever on you." Isn't the effect on your CUSTOMERS the entire point?
BTW, I have no idea what "escape goats" are, but you might have meant "scapegoats." That is if you had any education at all. Or maybe you are just used to your goats getting loose.
Whoever does not like flexible schedules is a person who is not in a position to use it or do not want to use it. Not only he/she doesn't want it for him/herself but he/she does not want anyone else to use it. Old screwed up reasoning!
Whoever does not like flexible schedules is a person who is not in a position to use it or do not want to use it. Not only he/she doesn't want it for him/herself but he/she does not want anyone else to use it. Old screwed up reasoning!
November 2, 2018 at 6:45 PM
Flexible hours do work well for everyone when they are not abused but at LANL it is severely abused and it effects those that do not abuse it. The system is pretty messed up and Triad better be careful that the media or some outside agency does not find out about just how bad it has gotten. I guess what when that does happen which is probably a matter of time the 9-80 will be eliminated for everyone including those such as myself and maybe some of you that do not abuse it. If you want to keep the 9-80 it is not advisable to simply ignore or deny the rampant abuse.
I am not sure which part of the lab you work but some parts it is a policy that time needs to be put in by 10AM Thurs since so many people are gone after noon on Thursdays and absent Fridays. This actually a policy in some divisions and you get put on vacation for the week if you try and put in your time on a Thursday afternoon. I know some of the posters know which divisions these are and can confirm. This is violation as I understand you need to put your time on the last day of the week you worked just like it is on every other work place. Also oddly enough you there are numerous times that time is due on Wed if there is Monday holiday the following week since everyone will be gone from Thur-Tues. I have been to several admin offices on a Fridays and the lights are out the doors are locked even though the official lab policy is that at some one has to be there. On those rare Fridays that someone is in, they are gone by 1pm. This is not just one office this numerous ones.
Flexible time is fine but you need to put in 40 hours a week on AVERAGE, it does not mean 30 hours a week Average. Also several people have said the same thing that you have that they work from home. This is the biggest crock on nonsense I have ever heard as one would need to have official permission do to this but none of them had, not to mention it makes no sense in most of these service positions.
As for the "I come in at 6AM", no you do not, the parking lots are empty at 6AM-7:30am, everyone knows this. As for I work until 6pm, no you do not the parking lots are empty 5pm aren half full at 4pm. I have also heard that I work during my lunch break, no you do not there is a big sign in front of the door saying at lunch, not to quibble but these signs are often out from 11.30AM-1.30PM.
Here is a simple math exercise. Even if you work 8AM to 5PM every day you get 40 hours a week, by the standard workday practice not 45 hours. Heck I would be happy if people did work 8-5pm which would mean that if you need something done a 4.01pm you could get it done but again people are leaving the leaving the lab at 3:30pm. Don't believe me, just look at Diamond drive at 3:35pm next Monday and you well see what I mean with a long line of cars leaving. Look again at 5.10pm and the traffic is much lower. Come in at 7:30 AM plenty parking, come in at 9.30AM and it is all gone.
How about another test, look at the people who come to LANL on the bus from Santa Fe. The bus that arrives at 8.42AM bus is packed, look at the people, go back to the bus stop for the 4:32pm bus depature...it is again packed with the same people.
Sorry the numbers just don't add up and everyone knows what is going on.
Sorry the numbers just don't add up and everyone knows what is going on.
November 3, 2018 at 12:44 AM
You are correct, but since the offenders are valley people and Hispanic, nothing will ever be done since it would be politically incorrect and subject management to charges of bigotry, racism, or worse.
Can someone please explain how a 8AM to 5PM workday translates into 45 hours a week? These hours was considered a 40 work week before 9-80 but is not considered a 45 hour week.
Can someone please explain how a 8AM to 5PM workday translates into 45 hours a week?
It is simple it is 9 hours a day, 5 days plus 4 equals the 9 hours for the Friday. Before 9-80 people counted lunch and breaks for 8-5pm, now I talk about work during lunch. Not to mention I read emails from home. By the way the issue on Fridays is that most people pick the same same schedule so of course every other Friday is close to empty, duh. You should not even be at work yourself so why are you complaining. Also the other Friday is often the day that people take their vacation for a three day weekend, or take sick leave for a doctors appointment, and some even work maybe 10 hours a day a week so every Friday off is not an unreasoble expectation.
Flexible time has been wonderful and it WORKS, it is not your concern what other people do with their time, it does not effect you. All you have to do is adjust your hours, you should not be waiting until Friday for something to be done, and even waiting until Thur afternoon since it is usually very busy. Try and get things done from 8-5pm Mon to Wed like everyone else rather than judge people who have more than just work in their lives. If this does not work for you than perhaps it is time to find a new place to work.
"I love having every other Friday off. I would not want to see this flexibility taken away. I work my required hours. I arrive to work on or before my start time and I leave for the day when I'm supposed to."
Ok, when is your "start time", when do you leave "your supposed to". Be real honest with this please. If you are coming in at 8AM you should be leaving at 6pm, but when do you actually come in what is your start time? I am assuming you are gone at 5pm from what you have previsuly said.
We await you reply.
I came into work a few times at 6:30-7.00AM to grab a few things when I was headed out for travel. Every single time in the entire building I was the only person. The parking lot had exactly one car, so don't give me "I come in at 6:30AM" crap. Heck the only person I know was even at the lab at this hour was the guy at the guard gate. I urge Triad to look into this and stop the abuse.
ok 8:47. Drive on down to Pajarito Rd at 6:30 and you will see masses of people crossing at the light. Lots are pretty full by 7:15, by 8 a.m. won't find a parking spot. Maybe in the research-y areas of the lab, people stroll in at 8. The rest of us are here between 6:30-7 a.m and work til 5:30. You can also see us here on our Friday's off.
Nonsense the parking lot is more than half empty at 8AM at TA-3. Maybe you work in TA-55 and things are different but at TA-3 the parking lot is always half empty at 8AM. Also at 6:30 AM along Pajarito there are not masses of cars. At 8AM-9AM there are masses of cars. At TA-3 the parking lots are empty at 7:00 AM, and almost completely empty at 5pm.
Also look at Pajartio at 3:30pm and than you again have masses of cars on their way out.
I agree that for different parts of the lab things could be different, for example security, maintenance or production work people should have specific schedules and maybe even a official clock in time but saying your experience is representative of the entire lab is just flat out wrong.
To the Anonymous person who is questioning my start time and when I leave. I come to work on or before 8:00am. Our TL for our team has everyone send an "In" message when we arrive to work. I leave at 5:30pm and not 6:00pm. I only have a 30 min lunch. We also have to send our TL an "Out" message when we leave work for the day. I happen to be a non-exempt employee.
Please don't assume when you know nothing about my work schedule. Why are you questioning my arrival and departure times? Are you guilty of something?
What are your working hours? Are you here on time/when you are supposed to be? Do you leave when you are supposed to? Are you taking your lunches accordingly?
When I arrive to work in my area at least, the parking lot is almost full and most people are at work, in fact, I'm probably one of the ones who arrives at the later working hour which is 8:00am Most everyone else starts earlier than that.
I would say there are people who abuse arrival/departure and lunches but that is not the majority of employees at least in my area. I don't know what goes on in other areas of the lab that I don't work in.
To the Anonymous person who posted below. What proof do you have and can post on here that "the offenders are valley people and Hispanic" Do you have concrete proof of your statement? That is completely and utterly wrong for you to say. Are you prejudice against people from the Valley who are Hispanic? Unless you can provide solid proof, then I would retract your comment.
November 3, 2018 at 12:44 AM
You are correct, but since the offenders are valley people and Hispanic, nothing will ever be done since it would be politically incorrect and subject management to charges of bigotry, racism, or worse.
It actually starts at 3:00pm. By 4.00pm it is just crazy. In fact 8-9AM and 3:30pm-4.30pm are the worst. Friday totally empty with no traffic at all. In fact Thursday is pretty dead as well, Monday not so bad. Tues-Wed you have the most traffic, expect if it is Monday holiday in which case Wed is dead as well. Tues is the work day at LANL, strong strange place.
The data is available. Those black rubber hosy looking thingies running across the road log it all. Those of you making unsubstantiated ridiculous statements should get the data, and prove your claims. Or disappear.
Yeah, all these valley people started their 9 hour workdays at 5:30 am. Ha !!! Managers are too scared to do anything about it, all the way up to the Director. That I know from personal experience.
"The data is available. Those black rubber hosy looking thingies running across the road log it all. Those of you making unsubstantiated ridiculous statements should get the data, and prove your claims. Or disappear.
November 10, 2018 at 4:48 PM"
Interesting, I am not sure how one would get the data but that sure would be something to see. How about this you go get the data and show how all these statements are "ridiculous".
I've been at TA-3 in the morning for or a meeting or to visit the badge office, the lot is full by 8 a.m. How do I know this? I try to get over there by 7:30 to get a stupid parking place. Again, if people are abusing 9-80's they will abuse 5-8's because that is a character issue or a management issue within the different groups, but not representative of the lab as a whole. It's really not that hard to comprehend.
41 comments:
The calendars aren’t printed up yet. And past calendars have not shown the winter break.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is no winter shutdown this year. Wasn't one of Holiday's we lost is Energy Savings Day, which occurs during the Winter Holiday? Triad can no longer justify the week long winter holiday shut down. Work, work, work...
The past calendars have always shown the winter break. The 2019 calendar is available as a pdf for printing and it does not show the winter break.
Triad has already stated there will be no changes to the winter closure this year. In fact, it was officially announced (over a month ago), with Christmas falling on Tuesday, LANL will be closed from Monday, December 24th through Tuesday, January 1st. And December 26th, Energy Savings Day, will still be treated as a holiday in 2018.
All the LANL calendars have shown the Winter closure for the past 25 years that I have worked here.
2018 we lost energy conservation day which was a holiday. We have to use 4 vacation days instead of 3 for the winter shutdown.
2019 the new LANL calendars have been printed and there is no blocked winter closure for end of December which I'm guessing would be 12/26, 12/27, 12/30, 12/31, 1/1 holiday and 1/2 return back to work.
Once again, the entitlement is strong here.
The winter shutdown was originally justified as an energy saving measure during one of the National energy crises. LASL elected to force employees to use some of their hard-earned vacation to do it.In contrast, Sandia just gathered up some of the more inconsequential holidays and rescheduled them for that week, letting the employees use their vacation as they wish. If TRIAD finally does away with forced donation of vacation to support an over-hyped political agenda, good on them !
What Triad really needs to do is get rid of the 9-80, it is totally abused by many sections of the lab. Now I know some sections do put in the hours such as the manufacturing sections but everything else is a complete joke. The lab is empty at 8AM and the cars are rolling at 3pm and by 5pm it is empty and Fridays it is a ghost town. Even with this people are freaking out that they lost two holidays. The place is just bizarre.
So Triad needs to get rid of this or actually start enforcing rules. You simply cannot get any paper work done before 10AM, after 3pm, most Thursdays and every Friday. It is like working in a 3rd world country at times. I know some people don't care and happy if nothing gets done but there are still lots of hard workers who take pride in the job who just want something functions.
I'm stunned about wanting to get rid of the 9-80. I'm one of those folks who arrive really early, before 5.30 am early. There are people already working by then. Having flexible hours allows a happy, more productive workforce. It also encourages a more diverse workforce who have obligations outside of work.
I don't know what paper work you are referring to. The only issue I have seen is when there is a network problem and getting replacement parts. Even then, it's still fairly speedy fix. However, I don't really do paper work. I work.
Most people I know work more then their 36/44 hours. Change divisions or find a job that requires less pushing of paper :)
Ever travel up the hill at around 3:30 or 4:00 pm? The downhill traffic, towards the valley, is tremendous. All these people started work at 6:30 am on their 9/80 schedule? I highly doubt it. Even if they did, where is the customer service at 5:00 pm? Answer, as stated above, is "nonexistent." 9/80 abuse has to be stopped.
I love having every other Friday off. I would not want to see this flexibility taken away. I work my required hours. I arrive to work on or before my start time and I leave for the day when I'm supposed to. Most employees do that in the building I work in. If employees are abusing their arrival/departure times, the managers should be following up on that. Ultimately it is the responsibility of the manager to see to it that his/her employees are submitting their time correctly. Time fraud is grounds for termination. Flexibility in today's workforce is helpful for everyone. I do believe that both LANS and now Triad have said they want to promote flexibility in the workplace to make working at LANL more attractive to workers with growing families and other obligations outside of work.
The newly revised "Holidays" policy was issued by TRIAD today. It states the "The Laboratory is closed between the Christmas and New Year's holidays each year." So, it looks like there will be no change there... for now.
Customer service at 5pm is done for the day. Most organizations publish their customer service hours. If you can't be organized to call before 5pm, perhaps you need to come to work a little earlier. Or call at 8am the next day. Yes, some problems arise after 5pm, I suggest working on something else and/or going home. Planning ahead helps too.
Watching other folks time and being bitter about it is not healthy. Lots of folks work part-time, catch up with work from home, and just have more flexible jobs. It's not your job to police people you know nothing about.
I am sincerely sorry that you are upset with other's schedules. Perhaps it's time to find a place that you find that suits you better?
If you are working customer service and are "done" at 5:00 pm, when are you starting customer service, and why is the total less than 9 hours on Mon - Thurs.?? If everyone else has to work 9 hours, why don't you? Why must everyone else "plan ahead" for your decision to quit your job early every day?
"Customer service at 5pm is done for the day."
Customer service ends at 3pm Monday through Wed, it ends on 12pm Thursdays and does not exist on Fridays. It also starts at 9AM
not 8AM. This is simply a fact of life at LANL. Of course there are exceptions but you will be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with this assessment of the work hours at LANL.
All people are asking is that LANL operates at least like every other first world operation in which things can be done 8 hours a day during.
The 8-5pm does not even add up in terms of hours if you are on the 9-80. 8-5pm is considered a standard 8 hour week in most places since there is a 1/2 hour lunch break and two other 15-20min lunch break. In principle one could be able to get costumer service done either at 7 AM or 6pm since the lab should be half full.
Again the lab is clearing out by 3:30pm every day, so the idea that people are even working 8 hours is not true. Also how is it that the lab only has 1/3-1/4 of the people on Fridays not to mention it is completly empty at 3pm every Friday. Everybody knows the 9-80 is completely abused, are you seriously saying it is not?
"I love having every other Friday off. I would not want to see this flexibility taken away. I work my required hours. I arrive to work on or before my start time and I leave for the day when I'm supposed to"
I am glad you work your required hours, but be very honest and ask yourself this, is everyone doing the same as your or is there a significant amount of people who are abusing the systems. Another questions to ask is if the abuse has increased over the last five years? Recently LANS put out a plot showing the LANL is not at an all time low in terms of incidences and injuries, which is good however I contend that is directly proportional to the sum of the hours being worked and that there has been a decrease in the number of insight workhorse which is the reason for the decrease in the injury rate.
I am sick of bitter people making the people who like flexible hours as their escape goats. Just because you waited all day until you put in your support request and it cannot be done because it is so last second is you problem not the problem of the productive people who on occasion like to have a Friday off. I agree with 8:20 AM perhaps it is time for you to find another job but you will still find find you should mind your own business and not care about how others people use their work hours. It is not your business, it is not your concern, and it has no effect whatsoever on you. On the other hand your negative attitude effects everyone around you.
I'm happy to see that the revised policy that was issued 11/1/18 shows the official holidays and indicates the laboratory will have a winter closure. This appears to be for the 2019 calendar year moving forward. There is no Columbus Day or Energy Conservation Day holidays. I think everyone was aware those were the two holidays that got axed.
Policy P730-1, Rev 4. int.lanl.gov/policy/documents/P730-1.pdf
3.2 Laboratory Holidays
Laboratory holidays:
New Year’s Day Veteran’s Day
Martin Luther King Jr. Day Thanksgiving Day
Presidents’ Day Friday after Thanksgiving
Memorial Day Christmas Day
Independence Day Labor Day
Holidays declared by the President of the United States
for the nation
3.3 Winter Closure
The Laboratory is closed between the Christmas and New Year’s holidays each year. The actual period of closure varies with the days on which the holidays occur, but the closure normally includes five or more weekdays.
3.3.1 Conditions of Closure
Nonexempt employees are prohibited from working on-site or at home during the closure unless an exception has been granted. Exempt employees are prohibited from working on-site unless an exception has been granted.
Exceptions: When exceptions are necessary for essential services during the closure period, the manager must submit a written request before closure begins to the division-level manager for approval.
3.3.2 Reporting Attendance During Closure
Employees may use vacation or leave without pay in combination with the declared holidays to cover the days the Laboratory is closed. An employee who uses leave without pay during closure receives holiday pay if the employee is in pay status on the last scheduled workday before closure or the first
Well, looking at various hours of all of the service organizations, it appears they all are open for at least 9 hours a day M-Th. Except the badge office, which just has strange hours. Just because these organizations aren't open for service, doesn't mean that they do not have other work. I suggest you plan ahead to work within these organizations posted hours - it's like going to a store or a restaurant. One does plan to use services.
BTW I don't work for a service organization. I just never have trouble getting service.
It appears you just are not happy with other people's work ethics or with posted hours of service.
Flexible time works.
Mr. Time cop is back policing hours of the workforce. I'm really tired of hearing it. As 2:17 pm said previously, this is a management problem so don't penalize the entire workforce because of areas that are allegedly not working. To be competitive with academics and industry, LANL needs to offer flexible work schedules. It's called work-life balance. If people are abusing 9-80s, then they will abuse 5-8s. Changing the schedule won't matter.
Flexible time works.
November 2, 2018 at 6:37 AM
Sure the posted hours may say 9 but try getting hold of one these at 3:30 pm, 8:30AM or any Friday, and you get nothing.
" I just never have trouble getting service. "
I am not buying it. Literally everyone I know has issues with services particularly the working hours so it is rather odd that you would be one exception.
Flexible time could work if done right but at LANL it is abused and everyone knows this, I suspect you know this as well.
November 2, 2018 at 4:09 AM
So your attitude about the shortened-hours customer service job you supposedly do is "It is not your business, it is not your concern, and it has no effect whatsoever on you." Isn't the effect on your CUSTOMERS the entire point?
BTW, I have no idea what "escape goats" are, but you might have meant "scapegoats." That is if you had any education at all. Or maybe you are just used to your goats getting loose.
Whoever does not like flexible schedules is a person who is not in a position to use it or do not want to use it. Not only he/she doesn't want it for him/herself but he/she does not want anyone else to use it. Old screwed up reasoning!
Whoever does not like flexible schedules is a person who is not in a position to use it or do not want to use it. Not only he/she doesn't want it for him/herself but he/she does not want anyone else to use it. Old screwed up reasoning!
November 2, 2018 at 6:45 PM
Flexible hours do work well for everyone when they are not abused but at LANL it is severely abused and it effects those that do not abuse it. The system is pretty messed up and Triad better be careful that the media or some outside agency does not find out about just how bad it has gotten. I guess what when that does happen which is probably a matter of time the 9-80 will be eliminated for everyone including those such as myself and maybe some of you that do not abuse it. If you want to keep the 9-80 it is not advisable to simply ignore or deny the rampant abuse.
I am not sure which part of the lab you work but some parts it is a policy that time needs to be put in by 10AM Thurs since so many people are gone after noon on Thursdays and absent Fridays. This actually a policy in some divisions and you get put on vacation for the week if you try and put in your time on a Thursday afternoon. I know some of the posters know which divisions these are and can confirm. This is violation as I understand you need to put your time on the last day of the week you worked just like it is on every other work place. Also oddly enough you there are numerous times that time is due on Wed if there is Monday holiday the following week since everyone will be gone from Thur-Tues. I have been to several admin offices on a Fridays and the lights are out the doors are locked even though the official lab policy is that at some one has to be there. On those rare Fridays that someone is in, they are gone by 1pm. This is not just one office this numerous ones.
Flexible time is fine but you need to put in 40 hours a week on AVERAGE, it does not mean 30 hours a week Average. Also several people have said the same thing that you have that they work from home. This is the biggest crock on nonsense I have ever heard as one would need to have official permission do to this but none of them had, not to mention it makes no sense in most of these service positions.
As for the "I come in at 6AM", no you do not, the parking lots are empty at 6AM-7:30am, everyone knows this. As for I work until 6pm, no you do not the parking lots are empty 5pm aren half full at 4pm. I have also heard that I work during my lunch break, no you do not there is a big sign in front of the door saying at lunch, not to quibble but these signs are often out from 11.30AM-1.30PM.
Here is a simple math exercise. Even if you work 8AM to 5PM every day you get 40 hours a week, by the standard workday practice not 45 hours. Heck I would be happy if people did work 8-5pm which would mean that if you need something done a 4.01pm you could get it done but again people are leaving the leaving the lab at 3:30pm. Don't believe me, just look at Diamond drive at 3:35pm
next Monday and you well see what I mean with a long line of cars leaving. Look again at 5.10pm and the traffic is much lower. Come in at 7:30 AM plenty parking, come in at 9.30AM and it is all gone.
How about another test, look at the people who come to LANL on the bus from Santa Fe. The bus that arrives at 8.42AM bus is packed, look at the people, go back to the bus stop for the 4:32pm bus depature...it is again packed with the same people.
Sorry the numbers just don't add up and everyone knows what is going on.
Sorry the numbers just don't add up and everyone knows what is going on.
November 3, 2018 at 12:44 AM
You are correct, but since the offenders are valley people and Hispanic, nothing will ever be done since it would be politically incorrect and subject management to charges of bigotry, racism, or worse.
Can someone please explain how a 8AM to 5PM workday translates into 45 hours a week? These hours was considered a 40 work week before 9-80 but is not considered a 45 hour week.
Can someone please explain how a 8AM to 5PM workday translates into 45 hours a week?
It is simple it is 9 hours a day, 5 days plus 4 equals the 9 hours for the Friday. Before 9-80 people counted lunch and breaks for 8-5pm, now I talk about work during lunch. Not to mention I read emails from home. By the way the issue on Fridays is that most people pick the same same schedule so of course every other Friday is close to empty, duh. You should not even be at work yourself so why are you complaining. Also the other Friday is often the day that people take their vacation for a three day weekend, or take sick leave for a doctors appointment, and some even work maybe 10 hours a day a week so every Friday off is not an unreasoble expectation.
Flexible time has been wonderful and it WORKS, it is not your concern what other people do with their time, it does not effect you. All you have to do is adjust your hours, you should not be waiting until Friday for something to be done, and even waiting until Thur afternoon since it is usually very busy. Try and get things done from 8-5pm Mon to Wed like everyone else rather than judge people who have more than just work in their lives. If this does not work for you than perhaps it is time to find a new place to work.
November 4, 2018 at 8:17 AM
Arrogant and entitled. And not inclined to work much. Perfect employee. All too typical of "service" organizations.
"I love having every other Friday off. I would not want to see this flexibility taken away. I work my required hours. I arrive to work on or before my start time and I leave for the day when I'm supposed to."
Ok, when is your "start time", when do you leave "your supposed to". Be real honest with this please. If you are coming in at 8AM you should be leaving at 6pm, but when do you actually come in what is your start time? I am assuming you are gone at 5pm from what you have previsuly said.
We await you reply.
I came into work a few times at 6:30-7.00AM to grab a few things when I was headed out for travel. Every single time in the entire building I was the only person. The parking lot had exactly one car, so don't give me "I come in at 6:30AM" crap. Heck the only person I know was even at the lab at this hour was the guy at the guard gate. I urge Triad to look into this and stop the abuse.
ok 8:47. Drive on down to Pajarito Rd at 6:30 and you will see masses of people crossing at the light. Lots are pretty full by 7:15, by 8 a.m. won't find a parking spot. Maybe in the research-y areas of the lab, people stroll in at 8. The rest of us are here between 6:30-7 a.m and work til 5:30. You can also see us here on our Friday's off.
"by 8 a.m. won't find a parking spot"
Nonsense the parking lot is more than half empty at 8AM at TA-3. Maybe you work in TA-55 and things are different but at TA-3 the parking lot is always half empty at 8AM. Also at 6:30 AM along Pajarito there are not masses of cars. At 8AM-9AM there are masses of cars. At TA-3 the parking lots are empty at 7:00 AM, and almost completely empty at 5pm.
Also look at Pajartio at 3:30pm and than you again have masses of cars on their way out.
I agree that for different parts of the lab things could be different, for example security, maintenance or production work people should have specific schedules and maybe even a official clock in time but saying your experience is representative of the entire lab is just flat out wrong.
To the Anonymous person who is questioning my start time and when I leave. I come to work on or before 8:00am. Our TL for our team has everyone send an "In" message when we arrive to work. I leave at 5:30pm and not 6:00pm. I only have a 30 min lunch. We also have to send our TL an "Out" message when we leave work for the day. I happen to be a non-exempt employee.
Please don't assume when you know nothing about my work schedule. Why are you questioning my arrival and departure times? Are you guilty of something?
What are your working hours? Are you here on time/when you are supposed to be? Do you leave when you are supposed to? Are you taking your lunches accordingly?
When I arrive to work in my area at least, the parking lot is almost full and most people are at work, in fact, I'm probably one of the ones who arrives at the later working hour which is 8:00am Most everyone else starts earlier than that.
I would say there are people who abuse arrival/departure and lunches but that is not the majority of employees at least in my area. I don't know what goes on in other areas of the lab that I don't work in.
To the Anonymous person who posted below. What proof do you have and can post on here that "the offenders are valley people and Hispanic" Do you have concrete proof of your statement?
That is completely and utterly wrong for you to say. Are you prejudice against people from the Valley who are Hispanic? Unless you can provide solid proof, then I would retract your comment.
November 3, 2018 at 12:44 AM
You are correct, but since the offenders are valley people and Hispanic, nothing will ever be done since it would be politically incorrect and subject management to charges of bigotry, racism, or worse.
November 3, 2018 at 6:26 PM
Uh, heavy traffic down the hill at 3:30 pm?
Uh, heavy traffic down the hill at 3:30 pm?
November 7, 2018 at 5:11 PM
It actually starts at 3:00pm. By 4.00pm it is just crazy. In fact 8-9AM and 3:30pm-4.30pm are the worst. Friday totally empty with no traffic at all. In fact Thursday is pretty dead as well, Monday not so bad. Tues-Wed you have the most traffic, expect if it is Monday holiday in which case Wed is dead as well. Tues is the work day at LANL, strong strange place.
The data is available. Those black rubber hosy looking thingies running across the road log it all. Those of you making unsubstantiated ridiculous statements should get the data, and prove your claims. Or disappear.
Yeah, all these valley people started their 9 hour workdays at 5:30 am. Ha !!! Managers are too scared to do anything about it, all the way up to the Director. That I know from personal experience.
"The data is available. Those black rubber hosy looking thingies running across the road log it all. Those of you making unsubstantiated ridiculous statements should get the data, and prove your claims. Or disappear.
November 10, 2018 at 4:48 PM"
Interesting, I am not sure how one would get the data but that sure would be something to see. How about this you go get the data and show how all these statements are "ridiculous".
November 5, 2018 at 8:37 AM
I've been at TA-3 in the morning for or a meeting or to visit the badge office, the lot is full by 8 a.m. How do I know this? I try to get over there by 7:30 to get a stupid parking place. Again, if people are abusing 9-80's they will abuse 5-8's because that is a character issue or a management issue within the different groups, but not representative of the lab as a whole. It's really not that hard to comprehend.
Your "comprehension" may not be the same as others'. Have you not experienced that phenomenon before?
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