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Monday, August 16, 2021
1 MJ NIF yield
Can anyone here verify the 1 MJ NIF yield that was mentioned on this blog? I don’t see any news release on that and it’s supposedly been a week since the experiment.
28 comments:
Anonymous
said...
It was mentioned in an internal LLNL e-mail directly from the Director.
Rumor has it that there will be some kind of public announcement this week.
Why put out a press release saying the NIF is short of ignition? Does anyone not know that? Either (a) NIF ignited, but the dopes at NNSA wont let Livermore say it or (b) the livermore managers are dopes.
The August 8th shot was a remarkable achievement. I had always thought that the radiation field in the hohlraum would be too complex to ever achieve the necessary implosion symmetry at the convergence ratios required to reach ignition. Clearly I was wrong. Omar and his team deserve all of the accolades that I expect them to receive. "We know the lion by his paw." -- Jas. Mercer-Smith
Unlike Newton NIF did not exactly solve the problem in 12 hours, nor is it obvious they can reproduce this since it is a single shot.
But who knows where this could lead, I am cautiously optimistic but if one looks at the history of science there are all sorts of one anomaly events in big experiments. Repeat the shot and I will be more optimistic.
The August 8th shot was a remarkable achievement. I had always thought that the radiation field in the hohlraum would be too complex to ever achieve the necessary implosion symmetry at the convergence ratios required to reach ignition. Clearly I was wrong. Omar and his team deserve all of the accolades that I expect them to receive. "We know the lion by his paw." -- Jas. Mercer-Smith
8/18/2021 7:57 PM
Interesting comment. The experimental basis for our present stockpile confidence is single-shot data, gleaned from never repeated events.
3:33 Your statement is incorrect. Of course you know that which makes it all the more disturbing. Perhaps you should analyze your motives visa-vis that pretend narrative you are trying to advance.
"On Aug. 8, 2021, an experiment at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory’s (LLNL’s) National Ignition Facility (NIF) made a significant step toward ignition, achieving a yield of more than 1.3 megajoules (MJ). This advancement puts researchers at the threshold of fusion ignition, an important goal of the NIF, and opens access to a new experimental regime.
The experiment was enabled by focusing laser light from NIF — the size of three football fields — onto a target the size of a BB that produces a hot-spot the diameter of a human hair, generating more than 10 quadrillion watts of fusion power for 100 trillionths of a second.
“These extraordinary results from NIF advance the science that NNSA depends on to modernize our nuclear weapons and production as well as open new avenues of research,” said Jill Hruby, DOE under secretary for Nuclear Security and NNSA administrator.
The central mission of NIF is to provide experimental insight and data for NNSA’s science-based Stockpile Stewardship Program. Experiments in pursuit of fusion ignition are an important part of this effort. They provide data in an important experimental regime that is extremely difficult to access, furthering our understanding of the fundamental processes of fusion ignition and burn and enhancing our simulation tools to support stockpile stewardship. Fusion ignition is also an important gateway to enable access to high fusion yields in the future.
“This result is a historic step forward for inertial confinement fusion research, opening a fundamentally new regime for exploration and the advancement of our critical national security missions. It is also a testament to the innovation, ingenuity, commitment and grit of this team and the many researchers in this field over the decades who have steadfastly pursued this goal,” said LLNL Director Kim Budil. “For me it demonstrates one of the most important roles of the national labs – our relentless commitment to tackling the biggest and most important scientific grand challenges and finding solutions where others might be dissuaded by the obstacles.”
While a full scientific interpretation of these results will occur through the peer-reviewed journal/conference process, initial analysis shows an 8X improvement over experiments conducted in spring 2021 and a 25X increase over NIF’s 2018 record yield."
As I recall, typical high explosives yield several kJ of energy per gram, so this +1 MJ shot resulted in a sudden energy release equivalent to several hundred grams of HE? I would guess that even without whatever instrumentation that they use to measure energy release that there's no mistaking the fact that there was a huge release in energy in the shot. Is there a loud "thud" of sound and vibrations when a shot like that goes off which makes it immediately obvious to everyone that was a big energy release?
I think it is pretty clear that they did get a huge boost. The question is can the reproduce this and understand what exactly the did to get it. It is a big step, if they can repeat than they really have something they can celebrate.
The world is falling apart, America is leaving our allies behind, Covid is ravaging the world, China and Russia are rising, the US cannot even face its own past injustices, our nation almost fell on Jan 6. Does NIF really matter at this point? Is this all you can think about? There is more to the world and way more important things than a giant toy. Suppose NIF worked out, all it would mean is that we would think we have cheap energy to keep living our unsustainable life style. The reality is that we cannot keep this life up, even if we made energy 80% cheaper all we would do is use 10 times more energy. We need to completely rethink our way of life, how we spend money, do we even need money, do we need war, do we need weapons. Listen to the young people around you not to news about so called scientific breakthroughs.
Listen to the young people around you not to news about so called scientific breakthroughs.
8/23/2021 3:33 PM
Yes, yes, listen to all that worldly wisdom gained in peace, without the threat of nuclear doom, thanks to the security blanket of our nuclear weapon stockpile.
We need to completely rethink our way of life, how we spend money, do we even need money, do we need war, do we need weapons. Listen to the young people around you not to news about so called scientific breakthroughs.
8/23/2021 3:33 PM
Tell you what. You do all that for me, ok? I've got better things to do. Like living my life regardless of what you think.
The problem is that you "living your life" by using fossil fuels, eating meat, buying cars, being in a big house, flying to Paris, is deadly for the rest of the world and future generations. One of our current conversations is making vaccines being a mandate. You can say it your life but when you do not have a vaccine you are endangering others. The US and world is waking up now and starting to put in the mandates. Pollution and unsustainable life styles are just if not more deadly than not getting a vaccine. We need mandates for how much fuel, food, size of house, travel, number of kids, and lifestyle if we are to make a better future for all. Covid in many ways is opening our eyes to the better future if we drop the idea of thinking about only ourselves but start thinking collectively. NIF could be used for good but only if we rethink our lives.
"Rethink your own life, I'm busy living mine, which you can't touch.
8/25/2021 6:04 PM"
Living "your" life, things are changing my friend, things are changing. Vaccines are going to be mandated soon, after that will be restrictions on how much travel one can take, what kind if any kind of car you will be allowed, internet freedoms will soon be gone, more freedoms after that. By 2030 you will own nothing, have no privacy, no space of your own, but you will be happy. You will have to live in a city as we all will, but using the term your will not be a thing. Your way thinking is obsolete and useless.
World Economic Forum Leadership Strategy Follow By Ida Auken
Welcome to the year 2030. Welcome to my city - or should I say, "our city." I don't own anything. I don't own a car. I don't own a house. I don't own any appliances or any clothes.
It might seem odd to you, but it makes perfect sense for us in this city. Everything you considered a product, has now become a service. We have access to transportation, accommodation, food and all the things we need in our daily lives. One by one all these things became free, so it ended up not making sense for us to own much.
First communication became digitized and free to everyone. Then, when clean energy became free, things started to move quickly. Transportation dropped dramatically in price. It made no sense for us to own cars anymore, because we could call a driverless vehicle or a flying car for longer journeys within minutes. We started transporting ourselves in a much more organized and coordinated way when public transport became easier, quicker and more convenient than the car. Now I can hardly believe that we accepted congestion and traffic jams, not to mention the air pollution from combustion engines. What were we thinking?
All in all, it is a good life. Much better than the path we were on, where it became so clear that we could not continue with the same model of growth. We had all these terrible things happening: lifestyle diseases, climate change, the refugee crisis, environmental degradation, completely congested cities, water pollution, air pollution, social unrest and unemployment. We lost way too many people before we realized that we could do things differently. I know that, somewhere, everything I do, think and dream of is recorded.
My biggest concern is all the people who do not live in our city. Those we lost on the way. Those who decided that it became too much, all this technology. Those who felt obsolete and useless
I'm already vaccinated fully since early March - waiting for a booster, so I'm completely in favor of vaccine mandates, just as for school-age children before being allowed to enter school. As someone said today, willfully unvaccinated people are about to see their world shrink greatly.
The rest of your blather about losing freedoms is just...blather.
This was a pretty interesting thread until the woke beast attacked. I am curious if a scientific breakthrough occurred. I want to know details of that breakthrough. And for a number of posts some interesting discussion was being held.
28 comments:
It was mentioned in an internal LLNL e-mail directly from the Director.
Rumor has it that there will be some kind of public announcement this week.
Holy cow, Mike Campbell has been all over social media gloating about “something.”
Just be patient,
Undoubtedly it will require special word-smithing to imply that this long overdue milestone is something that it is not.
The news hit the wires today.
And was completely lost because of really bad timing.
NIF at Livermore is the only place in the universe where success is declared by a single, perhaps unrepeatable, event. Ho Hum.
I think it’s a big deal but it might be too late. NNSA has a lot of other priorities and the budgets look flat for years.
Sadly, once again, we must clarify the acronym. Not ignition facility.
Why put out a press release saying the NIF is short of ignition? Does anyone not know that? Either (a) NIF ignited, but the dopes at NNSA wont let Livermore say it or (b) the livermore managers are dopes.
The Liberal Arts majors at the NNSA Livermore Field Office are in the pocket of LLNS. They always have been.
The August 8th shot was a remarkable achievement. I had always thought that the radiation field in the hohlraum would be too complex to ever achieve the necessary implosion symmetry at the convergence ratios required to reach ignition. Clearly I was wrong. Omar and his team deserve all of the accolades that I expect them to receive. "We know the lion by his paw."
-- Jas. Mercer-Smith
8/18/2021 7:57 PM
Actually it sounds better to say
"We know the lion by his claw"
Unlike Newton NIF did not exactly solve the problem in 12 hours, nor is it obvious they can reproduce this since it is a single shot.
But who knows where this could lead, I am cautiously optimistic but if one looks at the history of science there are all sorts of one anomaly events in big experiments. Repeat the shot and I will be more optimistic.
It is also a pretty cool song by an English band.
It is also a pretty cool song by an English band.
8/19/2021 10:26 AM
English boy bands got rich covering the true sounds of the delta. I suppose there is an allegorical connection to NIF and weapons in there somewhere.
The August 8th shot was a remarkable achievement. I had always thought that the radiation field in the hohlraum would be too complex to ever achieve the necessary implosion symmetry at the convergence ratios required to reach ignition. Clearly I was wrong. Omar and his team deserve all of the accolades that I expect them to receive. "We know the lion by his paw."
-- Jas. Mercer-Smith
8/18/2021 7:57 PM
Interesting comment. The experimental basis for our present stockpile confidence is single-shot data, gleaned from never repeated events.
English boy bands got rich covering the true sounds of the delta. I suppose there is an allegorical connection to NIF and weapons in there somewhere.
8/20/2021 3:01 PM
Are you implying a band like Led Zeppelin are not entirely original and "borrowed" from the blues?.... A truly shocking statement.
I do not know the history of laser fusion, did the British come up with this first or Mississippi. I do like fusion bands.
3:33 Your statement is incorrect. Of course you know that which makes it all the more disturbing. Perhaps you should analyze your motives visa-vis that pretend narrative you are trying to advance.
"On Aug. 8, 2021, an experiment at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory’s (LLNL’s) National Ignition Facility (NIF) made a significant step toward ignition, achieving a yield of more than 1.3 megajoules (MJ). This advancement puts researchers at the threshold of fusion ignition, an important goal of the NIF, and opens access to a new experimental regime.
The experiment was enabled by focusing laser light from NIF — the size of three football fields — onto a target the size of a BB that produces a hot-spot the diameter of a human hair, generating more than 10 quadrillion watts of fusion power for 100 trillionths of a second.
“These extraordinary results from NIF advance the science that NNSA depends on to modernize our nuclear weapons and production as well as open new avenues of research,” said Jill Hruby, DOE under secretary for Nuclear Security and NNSA administrator.
The central mission of NIF is to provide experimental insight and data for NNSA’s science-based Stockpile Stewardship Program. Experiments in pursuit of fusion ignition are an important part of this effort. They provide data in an important experimental regime that is extremely difficult to access, furthering our understanding of the fundamental processes of fusion ignition and burn and enhancing our simulation tools to support stockpile stewardship. Fusion ignition is also an important gateway to enable access to high fusion yields in the future.
“This result is a historic step forward for inertial confinement fusion research, opening a fundamentally new regime for exploration and the advancement of our critical national security missions. It is also a testament to the innovation, ingenuity, commitment and grit of this team and the many researchers in this field over the decades who have steadfastly pursued this goal,” said LLNL Director Kim Budil. “For me it demonstrates one of the most important roles of the national labs – our relentless commitment to tackling the biggest and most important scientific grand challenges and finding solutions where others might be dissuaded by the obstacles.”
While a full scientific interpretation of these results will occur through the peer-reviewed journal/conference process, initial analysis shows an 8X improvement over experiments conducted in spring 2021 and a 25X increase over NIF’s 2018 record yield."
https://www.llnl.gov/news/national-ignition-facility-experiment-puts-researchers-threshold-fusion-ignition
"The August 8th shot was a remarkable achievement."
When is NIF scheduled to repeat this exact experiment? Are there scheduling conflicts, lack of funding, or damaged systems in need of repair first?
As I recall, typical high explosives yield several kJ of energy per gram, so this +1 MJ shot resulted in a sudden energy release equivalent to several hundred grams of HE? I would guess that even without whatever instrumentation that they use to measure energy release that there's no mistaking the fact that there was a huge release in energy in the shot. Is there a loud "thud" of sound and vibrations when a shot like that goes off which makes it immediately obvious to everyone that was a big energy release?
- Doug
8/22/2021 12:52 PM
I think it is pretty clear that they did get a huge boost. The question is can the reproduce this and understand what exactly the did to get it. It is a big step, if they can repeat than they really have something they can celebrate.
The world is falling apart, America is leaving our allies behind, Covid is ravaging the world, China and Russia are rising, the US cannot even face its own past injustices, our nation almost fell on Jan 6. Does NIF really matter at this point? Is this all you can think about? There is more to the world and way more important things than a giant toy. Suppose NIF worked out, all it would mean is that we would think we have cheap energy to keep living our unsustainable life style. The reality is that we cannot keep this life up, even if we made energy 80% cheaper all we would do is use 10 times more energy. We need to completely rethink our way of life, how we spend money, do we even need money, do we need war, do we need weapons. Listen to the young people around you not to news about so called scientific breakthroughs.
Listen to the young people around you not to news about so called scientific breakthroughs.
8/23/2021 3:33 PM
Yes, yes, listen to all that worldly wisdom gained in peace, without the threat of nuclear doom, thanks to the security blanket of our nuclear weapon stockpile.
We need to completely rethink our way of life, how we spend money, do we even need money, do we need war, do we need weapons. Listen to the young people around you not to news about so called scientific breakthroughs.
8/23/2021 3:33 PM
Tell you what. You do all that for me, ok? I've got better things to do. Like living my life regardless of what you think.
Like living my life regardless of what you think.
8/24/2021 5:44 PM
The problem is that you "living your life" by using fossil fuels, eating meat, buying cars, being in a big house, flying to Paris, is deadly for the rest of the world and future generations. One of our current conversations is making vaccines being a mandate. You can say it your life but when you do not have a vaccine you are endangering others. The US and world is waking up now and starting to put in the mandates. Pollution and unsustainable life styles are just if not more deadly than not getting a vaccine. We need mandates for how much fuel, food, size of house, travel, number of kids, and lifestyle if we are to make a better future for all. Covid in many ways is opening our eyes to the better future if we drop the idea of thinking about only ourselves but start thinking collectively. NIF could be used for good but only if we rethink our lives.
8/24/2021 9:37 PM
Rethink your own life, I'm busy living mine, which you can't touch.
"Rethink your own life, I'm busy living mine, which you can't touch.
8/25/2021 6:04 PM"
Living "your" life, things are changing my friend, things are changing. Vaccines are going to be mandated soon, after that will be restrictions on how much travel one can take, what kind if any kind of car you will be allowed, internet freedoms will soon be gone, more freedoms after that. By 2030 you will own nothing, have no privacy, no space of your own, but you will be happy. You will have to live in a city as we all will, but using the term your will not be a thing. Your way thinking is obsolete and useless.
World Economic Forum
Leadership Strategy
Follow
By Ida Auken
Welcome to the year 2030. Welcome to my city - or should I say, "our city." I don't own anything. I don't own a car. I don't own a house. I don't own any appliances or any clothes.
It might seem odd to you, but it makes perfect sense for us in this city. Everything you considered a product, has now become a service. We have access to transportation, accommodation, food and all the things we need in our daily lives. One by one all these things became free, so it ended up not making sense for us to own much.
First communication became digitized and free to everyone. Then, when clean energy became free, things started to move quickly. Transportation dropped dramatically in price. It made no sense for us to own cars anymore, because we could call a driverless vehicle or a flying car for longer journeys within minutes. We started transporting ourselves in a much more organized and coordinated way when public transport became easier, quicker and more convenient than the car. Now I can hardly believe that we accepted congestion and traffic jams, not to mention the air pollution from combustion engines. What were we thinking?
All in all, it is a good life. Much better than the path we were on, where it became so clear that we could not continue with the same model of growth. We had all these terrible things happening: lifestyle diseases, climate change, the refugee crisis, environmental degradation, completely congested cities, water pollution, air pollution, social unrest and unemployment. We lost way too many people before we realized that we could do things differently. I know that, somewhere, everything I do, think and dream of is recorded.
My biggest concern is all the people who do not live in our city. Those we lost on the way. Those who decided that it became too much, all this technology. Those who felt obsolete and useless
https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldeconomicforum/2016/11/10/shopping-i-cant-really-remember-what-that-is-or-how-differently-well-live-in-2030/?sh=5bd7dbda1735
8/25/2021 9:56 PM
I'm already vaccinated fully since early March - waiting for a booster, so I'm completely in favor of vaccine mandates, just as for school-age children before being allowed to enter school. As someone said today, willfully unvaccinated people are about to see their world shrink greatly.
The rest of your blather about losing freedoms is just...blather.
This was a pretty interesting thread until the woke beast attacked. I am curious if a scientific breakthrough occurred. I want to know details of that breakthrough. And for a number of posts some interesting discussion was being held.
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