“The ability of large-memory systems to integrate genomic analysis with large-scale machine learning for predictive modeling of therapeutic response will be important for accelerating the development of effective new therapeutics,” said Jim Brase, the lab’s deputy associate director for computing...
18 comments:
Why is LLNL working on Covid? We are a weapons lab that is the core mission anything else is a distraction and reduces other capabilities. If you recall LANL did all sorts of non-weapons science in the 80s and 90s and was considered a premier science lab. All this extra stuff lead to disaster and even a contract change. One the of biggest hammers to hit LANL during the congressional hearings was that it was doing none core work and that created arrogant scientists. When something goes wrong at LLNL they are going to blame them for having extra none mission work. This is on top of the fact that weapons scientists detest this kind of work at their labs and feel that it demoralizes them and adds nothing to the "mission".
I can hear it now, Congressman: "Why at a nuclear weapons lab do you leave yourself open to additional risks by having Covid work? You are not the NSF, you are not the NIH, you are not Pfiezer, all of which are far better able to do this work that LLNL, you do not see Pfiezer building nuclear weapons so why would LLNL be working on Covid, since you are wasting money I see no choice but to slash your budget, I may be congressman but I am no dummy"
While the goal seems to be noble, I can't help but think that this is the lab running to the pork trough to grab CARES money. I remember when the Blue/Gene L was being introduced to LC staff. Blue was for IBM, known in the industry as Big Blue. Gene was for Genetic research and L was for Livermore. The machine arrives and we install it on the open side. And the beast runs like a scalded cat and I said "The weapons boys will grab this machine." People I worked with said it wouldn't happen and voila, it swung to the closed side.
This acquisition begs a couple of questions. First, if this had been something of interest back in 2005, why wasn't there a machine of capability in place already, working this type of issue? Second, is LLNL the best place for this. In a sense, it's a silly question. As a machine on the open side, it's a resource available to the "world" and it could be sited anyplace. If LLNL has proven to be a superior manager of such a resource and can do so in an budget friendly manner, then siting it there makes sense. With the overhead costs at LLNL, I wonder if it can be done cheaply.
I hope it is a useful resource, but I can't help feel that if I look closely I will see piggies being fed.
This is the kind of posts where intelligent debate is possible. A breath of fresh air!
The post of 10:07 AM questions why Livermore would be working on Covid, it is not its core mission. Take a look at this video, specifically starting around the 7 minute mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X83FmacdzE
The speaker is George Michael and he describes what the core missions (plural) of he lab that were defined at the start:
Nuclear Weapons
Peaceful use of nuclear energy
Radiation effects on biological entities
You may ask who is the old grizzled guy speaking - well he was at the lab in 1953 and he knew the players.
That third core task became the Biomed department at the lab. They developed expertise on how cells worked and it becomes a logical step to leverage their expertise into related fields. It is a good thing to spread your wings to discover a different view of a problem lest you get stuck in one avenue of thought as Ed Teller was on the Super.
The capabilities of ARAC (now NARAC) have expanded from the tracking of radiation plumes to other hazardous materials and those tools are leveraged from their skill attained from the radiation tracking. Not to use such capabilities would be an extreme waste of man and material.
Livermore is very good at managing computer resources. Perhaps the folks at NSF and others in the private sector will be given access to this machine and will be grateful for the opportunity to use a unique resource that they might not have been willing or able to do on their own.
As to a congressman stating the he's no dummy, from my view in the bleacher seats, I would have to disagree on multiple occasions. Mark Twain stated it more eloquently: Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
These are the kinds of posts where intelligent debate is smothered in "LLNL/LANL is only a weapons laboratory! Non-weapons research is not supposed to happen here!!" ahistorical garbage. Of course both laboratories have done non-weapons research for many decades and will continue, having accomplished very significant breakthroughs in genomics, epidemiology, cosmology, anthropology, artificial intelligence, materials science, superconductivity, etc. Not all great scientists work on weapons, and as long as LLNL/LANL can attract great scientists, the also great weapons scientists will have incredible in-house expertise to draw on in their national security mission. To have it any other way is short-sighted and ignorant of how science works.
You may ask who is the old grizzled guy speaking - well he was at the lab in 1953 and he knew the players.
...
Livermore is very good at managing computer resources.
...
11/27/2020 2:02 PM
The "players" in 1953 calculated the yield of the first Livermore nuclear weapon test. It fizzled, and their second test was cancelled to avoid further embarrassment. Since then they have failed in controlled nuclear fusion, x-ray lasers, laser isotope separation, electron beam weapons, and inertial fusion. Why in the world would anyone expect them to succeed in biomedical research to prevent calamities like COVID-19?
" Not all great scientists work on weapons, and as long as LLNL/LANL can attract great scientists, the also great weapons scientists will have incredible in-house expertise to draw on in their national security mission. To have it any other way is short-sighted and ignorant of how science works.
11/27/2020 5:23 PM"
I agree with this assessment but I do not find it very popular at LLNL or LANL. Yes a good portion of the old timers believe that but the rest do not. At LANL there is a very vocal component that the labs should only do weapons that there has not been a single thing from outside science that has ever been used on the weapons side for several generations, and even if there was something along this lines they would not want it or trust it. All the other stuff creates risks, or creates arrogant scientists. Many are also very hostile to the "great scientist" idea and that the labs are now engineering labs and that the scientific mindset has no place at a modern lab and that bringing in " great minds" that come up with novel ideas simply does not fly anymore. As a few have said,. you may not like this but we are now jiffy lube shop version of what the labs used to be as others had that idea that cars could exist, designed the car, built the car, tested the car and raced the car. We simply change the oil and overcharge the costumer.
8:23 am is referring to Ruth and Rae, Livermore’s first tests. At the time the director of Los Alamos said something like “Livermore is going to need smaller towers or bigger bombs”. What happened after that was pure magic.
Why would anyone expect the lab to help with Covid?
From a June 26 issue of The Independent. Yes, it is a local paper that one can argue could be a shill for the lab. Still, it does show the lab has expertise in fields useful to the fight.
https://www.independentnews.com/news/fda-oks-coronavirus-tests-with-llnl-tech-lab-pouring-profits-into-research/article_66fea04e-b81b-11ea-a8d4-13c9aac94de5.html
What happened after that was pure magic.
11/28/2020 5:47 PM
Indeed after that LLNL pulled way ahead of LANL in terms of technical skill and accomplishments. LANL fell further and further behind but kept the cowboy attitude. It was only a matter of time until WHL. The real magic was that LANL is still around. It somehow defeated Nanos and Bechtel. Incredible.
"Indeed after that LLNL pulled way ahead of LANL in terms of technical skill and accomplishments." blathered 11/29/2020 7:03 PM
Which, of course, is why most of the enduring nuclear weapon stockpile was designed and proof tested by Los Alamos.
Which, of course, is why most of the enduring nuclear weapon stockpile was designed and proof tested by Los Alamos.
Yes, but now LANL lost that part of the triad to LLNL for the new deployment. LANL Standing on scientists of the past still.
LANL Standing on scientists of the past still.
11/30/2020 10:43 PM
Yay! On the shoulders of giants! Rock on! (Some of whom, like Seymour, actually lived a bit to the West of LANL)
Which, of course, is why most of the enduring nuclear weapon stockpile was designed and proof tested by Los Alamos. Yes, but now LANL lost that part of the triad to LLNL for the new deployment. LANL Standing on scientists of the past still.
No. It was because LLNL was without a mission except of the W87 so the W80 was transferred to LLNL because LANL could not do everything.
Well, to get things a little back onto the original subject.
Let's not conflate Livermore's ability / non-ability of designing nuclear weapons with their ability to bring something to the table concerning Covid research.
Here are two links, one from Livermore and one from LANL on the fight on Covid:
https://www.llnl.gov/coronavirus
https://www.lanl.gov/updates/covid-19-science-fact-sheet.php?source=covid-19-science%20news%20coverage
Both labs seem to be pitching their expertise and I for one hope they both succeed.
Both labs seem to be pitching their expertise and I for one hope they both succeed.
12/07/2020 7:33 PM
We do bombs, that is all we should be doing, anything else is mission creep, it does not belong at the labs.
12/08/2020 10:20 AM
You are only about 60 years late with that argument. Give it up already.
No. It was because LLNL was without a mission except of the W87 so the W80 was transferred to LLNL because LANL could not do everything.
12/07/2020 6:39 PM
LANL loses the first new deployment in more than 40 years and your reasoning is because LLNL needed the work. I hate to tell you that is no decision criteria.
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