I’m a Former Pastor, and I Don’t Believe in ‘Religious Exemptions’ to Vaccine Mandates
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/06/opinion/religious-exemptions-vaccine-mandates.html
First, there is no actual religious basis for exemptions from vaccine mandates in any established stream of Christianity. Within both Catholicism and all the major Protestant denominations, no creed or Scripture in any way prohibits Christians from getting the vaccine. Even the sect of Christian Scientists, which historically has abstained from medical treatment, has expressed openness to vaccines for the sake of the wider community. The consensus of mainstream Christian leaders — from Pope Francis to Franklin Graham — is that vaccination is consistent with biblical Christian faith.
Biblically based arguments against vaccination have been rebutted.
But even with legitimate religious claims sincerely held, the law allows companies to forgo offering exemptions if doing so places an “undue hardship” on the employer. Increasing the risk of bringing an infectious disease into the workplace certainly qualifies.
13 comments:
Sorry, but this is another bizarre NYT piece. So an ex-pastor is saying no religious exemption for Christians? The first problem is that Christians seem perfectly fine with the vaccine. They are not the religion that is saying no to these things. You might want to look into the different religious groups that are saying no to vaccines, they not Christians and have a tendency to lean left. Why would these groups care what a Christian pastor think, or even what the bible says? There may be some very small far off-shoot Christians groups but I doubt they are going to listen to this guy. The biggest groups Catholics are good with vaccines. Muslims on the whole are fine as well.
What not just say no religious mandates at al, why is this guy gong on about Christians which clearly are not his target. I believe this is a common fallacy called a straw man, where you say so and so hold this view when in fact no one holds that view. The whole vibe of the piece is somehow blamed at right wingers Christians, but almost no Christians right wing or left are using religious for a vaccine exhibition. So I ask what is the actually point of the article?
Finally we are also left with same the question, what will a mandate for forcing the rather small number Federal workers using
religion as exemption accomplish? Did any calculate just how many people that would be? (A rather small number).
In fact has anyone calculated how many unvaccinated people work for the Federal government? Again the number is not that high.
The fact is the vas majority of unvaccinated people do not work for the government and large portions are in the poorer communities, minority communities, the undocumented workers, homeless, and mentally ill. That is where you need to go if you really want to get a big chunk of the unvaccinated. Why is this so hard to address, do people simply not care, they just want to take political advantage, they do not know? Also what is the NYT trying to accomplish?
"Even the sect of Christian Scientists"
Are Christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witness, Children of God, considered Christians? They might make some of the bits and some of the books but are these actually Christian groups? Judaism, Islam and Christianity also share many of the same literature but does mean they
are the same religion.
Are there actually any Christian groups saying no to vaccines? I know some Rastafarians who are saying no, but I am just going out on limb and say there may not be a lot of Rastafarians at LLNL or LANL. I think a few other Caribbean religions resist vaccines but does anybody know any other major religion that has been against Covid? I read that some Orthodox Jews are resistant but I am unaware of a specific rule against it.
The only thing I could find was the "Dutch Reformed Church" with 70k people but I know very little of this.
What was the point of the NYT article? Are some NYT reading Rastafarians going to see this and "hey an ex Pastor said nothing in the bible says I should not take the vaccine!" If anything there is some left leaning holistic groups and New age groups, but are they even a recognized religion?
The NYT is just getting weirder and weirder.
" Increasing the risk of bringing an infectious disease into the workplace certainly qualifies."
An argument I keep hearing is that if you are vaccinated what do you care if coworkers are vaccinated or not? I suppose the answer could be that the vaccine is only 95% efficient so you could get it a again. The counter is that even if you did get it again the odds are it will not be serious. Another counter is that even vaccinated people who show no symptoms can carry it still give it to another vaccinated person anyway. I would like to see some real numbers to show just what is the health/economics benefit to vaccinated people to have vaccine mandates on the unvaccinated?
Another argument is that the if everyone gets vaccinated than that would get rid of Covid, but I have found any epidemic experts or
scientists studying Covid ever say this. I have only heard random twitter people. The craziest thing I have actually seen is that if there where no republicans than Covid rapidly go away because everyone would be vaccinated. How does that work?
So what I am hearing is that LANL is going to do medical and religious exemptions. If do not meet these you go on unpaid leave. I guess until it is over but I don't see anyone getting fired. I would guess most exemptions are going to be granted. I am sure if someone from Heaven's gate says they want an expemtion it will be granted. Religious exemptions in general are only turned down 12% of the time . People also have all sorts of health reasons for not getting it. I would guess if you count everybody with health or religions arguments that it would be about 10-15% of the labs population which is closet go the number not vaccinated now. In other words this is all for show.
Medical exemptions will be extremely rare unless a bunch of MDs decide to lie, which I consider unlikely. No major established religion has objected to the vaccine, so that should be extremely rare as well, but much harder to verify and police. People known for their pre-existing and outspoken attitudes about vaccination and now claiming an exemption will be outed by their coworkers.
"Medical exemptions will be extremely rare unless a bunch of MDs decide to lie, which I consider unlikely."
Two points:
(1) Medical exemptions are not rare. They happen all the time for many things including Covid.
(2) There are many MDs, ODs that have no problem with ethical violations. Why do you think we have an epidemic of prescription drugs. Also how many people get workman comp with medical approval and so on. There are plenty of people who can easily get a medical exemption from a doctor.
"No major established religion has objected to the vaccine, so that should be extremely rare as well, but much harder to verify and police"
Exactly you can literally interpret your religion as a personal New Age type thing and there is no way say if it is true or not true. 88% of all religious exemptions are granted if you ask for it.
"People known for their pre-existing and outspoken attitudes about vaccination and now claiming an exemption will be outed by their coworkers."
I am don't follow your point, all this would do is actually add more arguments for the exemption as the co-workers would say these people have been consistently against it, which would be consistent with their personal religion or medical status.
Once again if you look up the statistics and demographics of those who are not getting the vaccine then you can see why it will be so problematic to actually fire these people. This is not just true at labs it is true across all the institutions that now have mandates, which is exactly why they are never going to go through with this. In any case you can see what the plan is already with "you could be put on unpaid leave". No one is going to be fired. It is just going to open up endless lawsuits, for religious rights, discriminations, workplace retaliation and so on.
This is also on top of the fact that pushing mandates on places that already have 85-90% is not going make dent in this pandemic. You have to go to the communities where the people are not getting the vaccine. There seems to be little will to do this. The MSM keeps pushing the narrative that is is all these right wing Trumper, Christians, and so on, but this not backed up by the actually numbers.
Anonymous 9/13/2021 4:17 PM said:
“So what I am hearing is that LANL is going to do medical and religious exemptions. If do not meet these you go on unpaid leave. I guess until it is over but I don't see anyone getting fired. I would guess most exemptions are going to be granted …”
Not true! Anyone submitting a religious exemption is ruthlessly interrogated by Lab Legal and then Mason has denied ALL religious exemptions. He even sent out a memo admitting as much …
There is no sustainable basis for religious exemptions. Period. If you disagree, name one.
Not true! Anyone submitting a religious exemption is ruthlessly interrogated by Lab Legal and then Mason has denied ALL religious exemptions. He even sent out a memo admitting as much …
9/16/2021 9:25 PM
Fact check: Fake news, there have indeed plenty of religious exemptions. The memo did not say what you are claiming. Why do you keep saying this stuff.
"There is no sustainable basis for religious exemptions. Period. If you disagree, name one."
You cannot be real. This is New Mexico, think about it, there are all sorts of people objecting on religious and moral grounds, and it is not even small religions.
No one is getting fired.
No one is getting fired.
9/18/2021 1:44 PM
It's not October 15, yet. Do try to stay up with the crowd!
9/18/2021 1:44 PM
You failed to state even one religious exemption justification. Try harder. No established religion in the US has officially objected to the vaccines.
You failed to state even one religious exemption justification. Try harder. No established religion in the US has officially objected to the vaccines.
9/19/2021 6:29 PM
A list of religions was already posted several times. . Maybe Scooby is banning them. I am getting rather tried of writing long posts with links to articles that just get rejected.
Mason just sent out an email.
I told you no one was getting fired.
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