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Age and pay discrimination are alive and well @ LLNL-LLNS. The good old boys & girls continue. Due to the secrecy of wages/salaries at LLNS I had no gauges as to where I stood w/ my peers. I just recently found out where I stand and I am very disappointed and offended. I am a 60+ year young, 20+ career employee and have an Engineering degree. No I do not want to retire, I like my job but I want to be treated fairly. I began in the Plant Engineering Crafts Shops and moved into the coordination field. I have had a great deal of training and performed many, many types of work from grunt to medium level management tasks and activities. I am only a 5XX after 20+ years. I have been held back from advancement (5XX > 3XX Series) and been given negligible pay raises compared to my peers while performing the same work tasks. In other words, in my humble opinion, I have the same Skills, Knowledge & Abilities (SKAs) or more w/o the benefit of moderate advancement or equal pay increases as my peers and co-workers. I know the same old worn out complaints. Could someone advise of a good attorney?
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13 comments:
If you still have a job I wouldnt start a fight. A fight will bring you down for years and if you survive with your health and your job you will be lucky. While the fight is on your salary will freeze as your performance appraisals will drop.
Try approaching it more calmly. Talk to HR, have them run some comps. Be nice, see what happens. Dont demand, let them do their own comparisons and get back to you.
Your story is just your story. No one knows the truth or the fiction of it. Everyone who is passed over for promotion feels taken advantage of. No one here can legitimately give you support or condemn you. If you truly feel unfairly treated, go to HR or go to a federal agency, although long experience shows you would be better if you just said goodbye to your current employer and sought a better position elsewhere. If that is not an option, maybe you are not as great an employee as you think. It is a really bad career decision to allow yourself to be trapped in a job.
I can understand your indignation at being treated in a way you feel is unjust. But, suing them can bankrupt you, even if you win. It cannot bankrupt LLNS. Is this really what you want to risk to feel vindicated? If so, then sue them and make your lawyer rich.
Yes... GWilliam, Ivary, Chiosso, Cavalli & Brewer
1999 Harrison Street, Suite 1600
Oakland, California 94612-3528
510 832 5411
I sympathize with your situation. I can also say I have walked in your shoes. I stopped asking any managers to grow me > 25 years ago and took the action to grow myself. That action proved to me that we are responsible for our own growth, both in content and salary. Forget the lawyers; mngmt has 20 years of PAs, you have a gripe. You will bankrupt youself and destroy your job. Go to HR, ask for comps, build your own list of comparable employees and compare with that of HR's. Push your career, change jobs, move to the Program. Growth does exist for those who pursue.
Discrimination against the "aged" has gone on for centuries. It's present at all the Labs. Problem is, most of the time it's never overt, hard to prove, and overt cases where the Lab has clearly discriminated are settled out of court by paying off the claimant. At Los Alamos, Anastasio settled (payed off) many, many cases out of court during his tenure to make things easier for MacMillan. Keep in mind, if you agree to a monetary settlement, you WILL sign an agreement that you will never work at the Labs again.
Try approaching it more calmly. Talk to HR, have them run some comps. Be nice, see what happens. Dont demand, let them do their own comparisons and get back to you.
October 22, 2011 6:53 PM
Talking to HR is a waste of time. HR works at and for the pleasure of management. Believe me, I was manager at Los Alamos for 30-years.
a mistake in his career was staying with the lab.
20 straight years will earn less than leaving after 5, picking up some outside skills, then returning at a higher pay grade.
Someone just came back after leaving the Lab 3 years ago. Hint: in OB/ICS.
This person proved you are worth more when you come from the outside.
Someone from within the dept could have been promoted to that position.
Age discrimination is a time-honored practice at both LLNL and LANL. They have turned it into an art form.
Try stopping it and see where that gets you. They'll have their lab lawyers all over you!
I think most of the answeres are right on the mark. I was a 'top 10'Sr EE COordinator and after 23 years, I realised I was never going to make enough money... although I loved the work and great minds at LLNL. So I left and ended up making a lot of money (seven figures)from royalties for my work for others. I have not had a full time office job since Livermore and now I am 65. It seems you cant have it both ways -- great R&D job and great money. Leverage what you have learned and move on to make the money you deserve.
-Richard Marsh
Cool, CA.
(rmarsh@calweb.com)
You could HR and file a grievance, and it will get you nowhere because HR is not there for you. Then your management could put you in a low level job. Then they could lower your clearance because you don't need a Q in your position, thus limiting where you can go in the lab. Then lower you classification because of the job content and you will be high in the salary range without hope of a raise nomatter how you are ranked. Has it happened, yes it has.
I know Dick and like him, good to hear that he is doing well.
I took a different approach, and hunkered down for the long haul. Weathered the storms, held my tongue, worked effectively and enjoyed the great companionship for over 30 years.
Just separated with a small nest egg and an adequate pension and, thankfully with my health.
It was worth it, I think. Blood now pressure near zero, lots of good memories and some that I'd like to forget.
You have a good opportunity. If you stick with it, you will be paid +/- 20% of where you compare over the long run, and either way the jobs are pretty good. Working conditions are pretty good, most people are great,though some are memorable shits (still get lots of good stories). Benefits for most are still exceptional, though under pressure.
But the whole country is under pressure, as the imbalances of federal fiscal and regulatory irresponsibility and widespread speculation are wrung from the economy. It is not clear that being at the lab is a poor place to weather this storm.
I remember starting in the aftermath of the 1974 recession there, then the 1982 downturn, the excesses of the late "80s, 2001 bubble as well as the beginnings of the great recession of 2007. it took 3 -15 years to return to good times each time then, and probably will take that long again.
If you are covering your bills, building some equity and a pension, you should consider whether a longer term view might be more beneficial.
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