Relating to the recent Elizabeth Warren DNA story, are employees hired and promoted at LANL and LLNL that state they are Native American, actually have their Native American status verified by the Labs? If not, how do the Labs prevent opportunistic fraud during the application and hiring process? Typically, there are minimum % DNA requirements, and tribal affiliation requirements, to officially claim Native American status.
"Liz Warren a minority hire, really? University should have verified"
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/hillary_chabot/2018/10/liz_warren_a_minority_hire_really_university_should_have
14 comments:
I thought the status is determined by the tribe.
"I thought the status is determined by the tribe."
If a young boy with Mexican ancestry becomes the step son of a Native American man, the boy may naturally identify with and practice the traditions of his step father, but could that boy later claim to be Native American?
As far as the Labs are concerned, a person self declares their race and ethnicity. There is no checking or requirement of proof. I know because I have done it. In the case of the Cherokee they do not accept DNA at all. You have to have an ancester on the Dawes Rolls. It is interesting to look at the Dawes Rolls as it shows that the fraction of native American that is in you is irrelevent. At that time there were not DNA tests so the fraction was determined by looking back at your ancesters and the compilers of the Dawes Rolls took your word for it, that is, self declaration. The people ranged from full blooded to at least 1/16th. It may have gone lower, I need to look again at the Rolls. If you did not look Indian enough they would not put you in the Rolls. Over history there has been so much exchange of DNA that it is difficult to define what is a native American. These same issues arise for Black people. Before the Civil War in the South you needed at most to have one Black grandparent to qualify to be a slave. An example of this was Thomas Jefferson who had four children by a 1/4 Black slave. He allowed the two oldest to escape and freed the other two in his will. In the 1920's VA and TN, and maybe other states, passed laws that legally classifed as Black anyone with one or more Black ancesters, no matter how far back. They were called the "single-drop" laws. This is interesting as we now know we all came out of Africa.
"If a young boy with Mexican ancestry becomes the step son of a Native American man, the boy may naturally identify with and practice the traditions of his step father, but could that boy later claim to be Native American?
November 5, 2018 at 8:35 AM"
Some tribes may consider this culturally to be the case so I guess it is possible.
Another point is that average person in Mexico typically has about 25-30 native ancestry from the interbreeding of the Spanish and other Europeans with the natives people. This goes back to very beginning of the Spanish in the new world. Not to mention that there is even a mixture of Asian DNA of up to 3 percent due to the the trade with China in which Mexico played role in with the Spanish.
When people throw the word Hispanic around it is actually not very well defined since different parts of Central and South American can have very different cultures and different genetic makeups. For example in Brazil in which they do not even speak Spanish has a mixture of native, European, and African make up. The European part is also extremely mixed with sections from Eastern and Western Europe. Argentina is also much more European on average that other parts of the South America. Than you have regions like Cuba and Dominican Republic which also have a mixture including a large African component. Finally Hatai is not even Spanish speaking and is predominately African. There is also more to this story because even subsaharan Africa is racially very diverse much more so than most people think, so it is not even correct to lump all people from African together, as there very distinctive groups which include Bantu, Kaosion, Pigmy, Nilotic, and the varied mixes people from the Horn of African
But all this only complicates simple stories so we can ignore it.
Does the application process at LANL or LLNL take any formal steps to verify applicants, hired employees, or promoted employees, are indeed Native American or any other "checked" racial or ethnic category? The answer appears to be a resounding no.
Years ago Art Wong, LLNS former AD for SHRM, launched a verification request of marital status to selected LLNS employees, to flush out misinformation in the application process linked to LLNS family benefits. However, I don't think LLNS has the stomach to open up a racial/ethnic review Pandora's box, much to the relief of any Elizabeth Warrens at the Labs.
""I thought the status is determined by the tribe."
If a young boy with Mexican ancestry becomes the step son of a Native American man, the boy may naturally identify with and practice the traditions of his step father, but could that boy later claim to be Native American?
November 5, 2018 at 8:35 AM"
I would think if the tribe says you are one of theirs than your are, however this could just from Dances with Wolves and is not actually true.
The previous comment shows that people do not read earlier comments and just spout out their own agendas. The Labs accept a person's self declaration to determine a person's race or ethnicity. How do I know? Because I have done it. Many of you have done it also when you check the "white" or Caucasian box. Do you have to prove what your race is? No, and it probably is illegal to require it. Furthermore, there is no legal definition of race. Marriage is completely different because there are legal documents as you will realize if you ever get divorced.
"Marriage is completely different because there are legal documents as you will realize if you ever get divorced."
Hmm, so checking a racial/ethic box on a Lab application, knowing some racial/ethnic areas are clearly underutilized by OFCCP guidelines, where such guidelines are aggressively imposed on Federal Contractors in terms of hiring and promotions, should be left to the applicant honor system?
"accept a person's self declaration to determine a person's race or ethnicity. How do I know? Because I have done it. "
Cool, so why are we on the case of Rachel Dolezai, she defines her self as who she thinks she is. You are right there is no legal definition of race so that is why it is never used in hiring , increasing diversity, or politics. There is no legal definition of race, therefore there can be no racism. Nice world. If you have an agenda than it is kinda cool.
According to a March 16, 2011 post on the "Original Pechanga's Blog", one of our LLNS senior engineering managers "is not a Pechanga Indian" and "is a fake" and this is supposedly verifiable through Riverside marriage records.
https://www.originalpechanga.com/2011/01/temecula-indian-reservation-pechanga.html
The Native American tribes are sovereign nations and as such are able to define people as Native American any way they want. The US is allowed to make its own definition any way it wants. It just has not come up with a definition, except self identification. If you discriminate against someone because you think he/she is Black, independent of what that person self declares, you are racist. If that person self declares as Black and you discriminate, you are racist whether you agree with the self declaration or not.
"If that person self declares as Black and you discriminate, you are racist whether you agree with the self declaration or not."
This Elizabeth Warren related topic and its comments are about fraudulent identification with a protected class, where employer verification is essentially nonexistent. Of course we should not discriminate. From your use of the word "racist", it is not clear what your real point is. There are a limited number of hiring and promotional opportunities at the Labs. If one self declares as a Black, or Native American, or other protected class knowing they are not, aren't we discriminating against those who are in a protected class?
If an obviously white person "declares himself" as black, and I ridicule him for that, I am not racist, I am just intolerant of stupidity. Likewise for a back person who "identifies" as white. It is all just stupidity, which knows no racial boundaries. None of this has anything to do with two separate questions: 1) is a person native American by heritage? That's a genetic question not subject to "racism" charges but to science, which might not be adequately answered by today's science; 2) is a person entitled to a claim of tribal affiliation? That's a claim subject only to the rules of the tribe or nation of native Americans in question.
BTW, the tribes, pueblos, and reservations are not "sovereign nations." They are subject to US federal law, as enforced by the federal government, in the form of the Bureau of Indian Affairs Police and the FBI. You'll see BIA Police presence in all Indian communities.
There is a VERY simple test to vet your Native American status with any employer
or otherwise. If you are able to file IRS Form 8965 to exempt your status from
Obamacare, and the IRS excepts your status on IRS Form 8965 "Member of Indian Tribe".
Then any employer would need to accept this status too. However, if the IRS does
not accept your Native American Status, all bets are off as to your claims.
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