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Wednesday, October 6, 2010
LLNL TCP1 contributions start in 2011
Anonymous said:
Miller said that to keep TCP1 well funded, contributions will be needed in 2014. He cites interest rates as the cause for liabilities growth. What interest rate is he referring to? Interest rates have been at an all time low!
22 comments:
Anonymous
said...
It was expected. No one could really believe that this and other retirement programs would not suffer from the current economic environment. The market will not increase above past high for some time, interest rates will stay low, but people will retire. Most of these programs relied on growth either from investments or new members. Since neither of these is occurring, contributions will have to increase; the question is, how much? If the economy goes into a very long recovery 15-20 years; I suspect the contribution will be substantial or the programs will have to be modified, or both. Remember, once you retire from TCP1 DOE does not have to prop up your personal annuity that is used to pay your benefits. If NNSA/LLNS/LANS have done what they wanted to do retirees will be on their own. If the annuity fails then POGOS will take it over and NNSA has no further obligation to prop it up. Of course it will still have to keep TCP1 solvent for those still working and have not retired. Remember the cost estimations of today do not really apply to tomorrow; there just educated guesses or approximations. How is that been working for us. BTW interest rates and liabilities are code for there is not enough money and there are profits to be made.
Retirement payments are made off the interest earned from the principal, usually bonds. You wouldn't sell off principal to pay benefits until there are less future pension liabilities than than interest earned. At some point in time you would sell principal to end the plan at zero dollars. With the interest rates being so low, the future payment liabilities are growing faster than the principal to generate income to cover those liabilities. So the only thing you can do is increase the principal by employee and employer contributions. At least TCP-1 is still overfunded, and LLNS isn't in the underfunded hole that LANS is in. So, even though there isn't much positive about LLNS, at least by starting contributions they can lessen the burden on the employees in TCP-1.
Got to laugh. LLNS is to follow UC new retirement plan with a 10% contribution by 2014 and this all take affect in 2011 just three months from now. Have any of you guys ever listened to the lyrics of a song entitled Smiling Faces by the undisputed truth. Oh and a new retirement plan is coming your way. min age 65 with a max of 60% after 10% contributions. It's all good.
Miller said contributions will start in 2011 not 2014. That would be in 2 months not 3 years.He didn't say interest rates were the cause of liability growth. He said that interest rates were one of the contributing factors to a flat growth in assets. Liability growth equals projected retirement growth. I am so thankful I didn't take TCP 1.
by 2014 long bond interest rates will be 6% mirroring predicted inflation.
LBJ inflated his way out of the great society/viet nam debacle and Obama will employ the same cheat with the bailout/afghani missteps.
NIce to be the world's reserve currency. We won WWII. We set up Bretton Woods, we print as much money as we like.....Yellen is well schooled in this...
Under LBJ through Carter rates went from 3%to 15%. Bernake/Gerither will start the the same devalation as soon as the economy allows....
Better to inflate away 1/2 of $15T than pay for it.
Not happy that TCP1 is now requiring contributions, but also not surprised because we knew this was coming to ensure a healthy fund, especially since there will be plenty retiring within five years. Do I regret choosing TCP1? Not at all.
The liability calculation rate of return based in the ERISA specified value of 5.5% per annum should be easy to achieve, with a 50/50 mix of diversified stocks and long term investment grade bonds, even in current markets, and it will return to the norm over time.
Further, the previous pension liability calculation should already contain all of the actuarial parameters for this closed pool. So, with all factors included or estimated based on actuarial assumptions, the total expected liability over the life of the plan is predictable (known with small uncertainty) and doesn't change much over time.
This ain't weapons science....
Does Miller know what he is doing?
Is he getting advice from Milliken and Madoff?
He's a weapons physicist, but I don't think he can add 2+2 without an error budget.
TCP_1 beneficiaries really need a representative on the investment committtee.
Large pension contributions from your salary and rising health care premiums in an environment of stagnant raises for staff ( but not for the LLC upper management! ).
Yeah, your take-home salary is rapidly going DOWN at the NNSA weapon labs, one way or another. This is what NNSA wants, though. You can be sure of it!
October 8, 2010 8:30 PM What was the employer match on your three percent salary contribution? Do you have any latitude in how your money is invested? I don't think I would be clicking my heals but then again I took TCP2. Shows you what I know.
October 8, 2010 8:36 PM I think you have finally stumbled onto the answer. Miller et.al. have known for some time that contributions would be required and for the very reasons you cite. It isn't rocket science and yes, they don't know what they are doing but they have highly paid investment strategists who do. As you suggest, it isn't that difficult to figure this out given a closed plan. Miller was just covering it up to keep morale from going into the toilet. That is standard management stratagem.
During the transition we were told that LLNS would be looking at changes that UC did with their plan and would take them into consideration for TCP1. I believe that this was intended to follow changes in benefits. I also believe that the investment choices that LLNS has in TCP1 probably mirrors what UC has. So when UC's investment tanks it's a no brainer that LLNL's TCP1 would run into difficulties. The primary difference is that UC had a greater number of people drawing benefits which created a greater stress on their system earlier.
For those that gloat on whether or not they chose TCP1 I will say this. My choice of freezing with UC will cost me a lot of money. I took that choice because I did not trust LLNS. But I am not going to do a happy dance should TCP1 run into severe problems. I have a great number of co-workers who took TCP1 and if it fails, my friends will be suffering. Should UC go into failure I would hope that my friends who chose TCP1 will not gloat over my suffering.
The one place where LLNS seems to have beaten UC to the punch is TCP-2. UC is floating a significant change in the plan where new hires will get a defined benefit plan that pays out much less than the current one. With TCP-2, not only will the pay be less but since it is not a defined benefit, once you're out the door, you are no longer on obligation.
Look, all the upper level managers that were chosen by LANS and later LLNS during the transitions got very special sweetheart salary and retirement deals from the parent company. Any surprise there after all these years? Not if you were paying attention from the beginning! If you think rehashing this issue will bring current action, or even any concern, you are delusional. Get over it. Private companies can give whatever perks they want to favored employees. My advice? Try to become one.
Private companies can give whatever perks they want to favored employees. My advice? Try to become one.
October 26, 2010 9:43 PM
Well said!! Yours is probably the most well-grounded, rational, and realistic post made on this blog for many months. You aren't in UC-land any more, people! Get used to it. Pretend you work for a company where nothing matters but your abilities and your accomplishments (as defined by your boss). It's true. Welcome to the real world.
Don't worry when we're out of this recession in about 10- 15 years things might get back to par but in the meantime just keep contributing and hope you get something out of it as social security goes away little by little for all that have paid into it for 40 years while they gave it away to all the parasite we have in this nation from all over the world. It's all good, brotha.
22 comments:
It was expected. No one could really believe that this and other retirement programs would not suffer from the current economic environment. The market will not increase above past high for some time, interest rates will stay low, but people will retire. Most of these programs relied on growth either from investments or new members. Since neither of these is occurring, contributions will have to increase; the question is, how much?
If the economy goes into a very long recovery 15-20 years; I suspect the contribution will be substantial or the programs will have to be modified, or both. Remember, once you retire from TCP1 DOE does not have to prop up your personal annuity that is used to pay your benefits. If NNSA/LLNS/LANS have done what they wanted to do retirees will be on their own. If the annuity fails then POGOS will take it over and NNSA has no further obligation to prop it up. Of course it will still have to keep TCP1 solvent for those still working and have not retired.
Remember the cost estimations of today do not really apply to tomorrow; there just educated guesses or approximations. How is that been working for us.
BTW interest rates and liabilities are code for there is not enough money and there are profits to be made.
Retirement payments are made off the interest earned from the principal, usually bonds. You wouldn't sell off principal to pay benefits until there are less future pension liabilities than than interest earned. At some point in time you would sell principal to end the plan at zero dollars. With the interest rates being so low, the future payment liabilities are growing faster than the principal to generate income to cover those liabilities. So the only thing you can do is increase the principal by employee and employer contributions. At least TCP-1 is still overfunded, and LLNS isn't in the underfunded hole that LANS is in. So, even though there isn't much positive about LLNS, at least by starting contributions they can lessen the burden on the employees in TCP-1.
Got to laugh. LLNS is to follow UC new retirement plan with a 10% contribution by 2014 and this all take affect in 2011 just three months from now. Have any of you guys ever listened to the lyrics of a song entitled Smiling Faces by the undisputed truth. Oh and a new retirement plan is coming your way. min age 65 with a max of 60% after 10% contributions. It's all good.
Maybe if JA's like Mike A and his ULM comrades were not getting $1M a year salaries for life there may be some pension for the peons.
Miller said contributions will start in 2011 not 2014. That would be in 2 months not 3 years.He didn't say interest rates were the cause of liability growth. He said that interest rates were one of the contributing factors to a flat growth in assets. Liability growth equals projected retirement growth. I am so thankful I didn't take TCP 1.
won't happen.
by 2014 long bond interest rates will be 6% mirroring predicted inflation.
LBJ inflated his way out of the great society/viet nam debacle and Obama will employ the same cheat with the bailout/afghani missteps.
NIce to be the world's reserve currency. We won WWII. We set up Bretton Woods, we print as much money as we like.....Yellen is well schooled in this...
Under LBJ through Carter rates went from 3%to 15%. Bernake/Gerither will start the the same devalation as soon as the economy allows....
Better to inflate away 1/2 of $15T than pay for it.
Go Giants!
Not happy that TCP1 is now requiring contributions, but also not surprised because we knew this was coming to ensure a healthy fund, especially since there will be plenty retiring within five years. Do I regret choosing TCP1? Not at all.
I don't get it.
The liability calculation rate of return based in the ERISA specified value of 5.5% per annum should be easy to achieve, with a 50/50 mix of diversified stocks and long term investment grade bonds, even in current markets, and it will return to the norm over time.
Further, the previous pension liability calculation should already contain all of the actuarial parameters for this closed pool. So, with all factors included or estimated based on actuarial assumptions, the total expected liability over the life of the plan is predictable (known with small uncertainty) and doesn't change much over time.
This ain't weapons science....
Does Miller know what he is doing?
Is he getting advice from Milliken and Madoff?
He's a weapons physicist, but I don't think he can add 2+2 without an error budget.
TCP_1 beneficiaries really need a representative on the investment committtee.
George continues to be a disappointment.
Surprised? You shouldn't be if you were reading the LLNL Blog instead of the LLNL news bulletin.
Large pension contributions from your salary and rising health care premiums in an environment of stagnant raises for staff ( but not for the LLC upper management! ).
Yeah, your take-home salary is rapidly going DOWN at the NNSA weapon labs, one way or another. This is what NNSA wants, though. You can be sure of it!
A year ago we were told how great shape TCP1 was in. Now contributions are needed. Trust DOE and LLNS--yea right!
October 8, 2010 8:30 PM What was the employer match on your three percent salary contribution? Do you have any latitude in how your money is invested? I don't think I would be clicking my heals but then again I took TCP2. Shows you what I know.
October 8, 2010 8:36 PM I think you have finally stumbled onto the answer. Miller et.al. have known for some time that contributions would be required and for the very reasons you cite. It isn't rocket science and yes, they don't know what they are doing but they have highly paid investment strategists who do. As you suggest, it isn't that difficult to figure this out given a closed plan. Miller was just covering it up to keep morale from going into the toilet. That is standard management stratagem.
During the transition we were told that LLNS would be looking at changes that UC did with their plan and would take them into consideration for TCP1. I believe that this was intended to follow changes in benefits. I also believe that the investment choices that LLNS has in TCP1 probably mirrors what UC has. So when UC's investment tanks it's a no brainer that LLNL's TCP1 would run into difficulties. The primary difference is that UC had a greater number of people drawing benefits which created a greater stress on their system earlier.
For those that gloat on whether or not they chose TCP1 I will say this. My choice of freezing with UC will cost me a lot of money. I took that choice because I did not trust LLNS. But I am not going to do a happy dance should TCP1 run into severe problems. I have a great number of co-workers who took TCP1 and if it fails, my friends will be suffering. Should UC go into failure I would hope that my friends who chose TCP1 will not gloat over my suffering.
The one place where LLNS seems to have beaten UC to the punch is TCP-2. UC is floating a significant change in the plan where new hires will get a defined benefit plan that pays out much less than the current one. With TCP-2, not only will the pay be less but since it is not a defined benefit, once you're out the door, you are no longer on obligation.
Springing this upon the staff after telling them over and over again that TCP1 was just fine... that doesn't kill morale, too?
The upper level management team of the "for profit" LLCs are watching out for their own backs and could care less about their employees!
Morale just sank a few steps lower. I didn't think it possible, but the LLCs have somehow managed to do it!
Heckavajob.
I agree, George is a disappointment.
"The upper level management team of the "for profit" LLCs are watching out for their own backs and could care less about their employees!"
Guess which plan George selected for himself:
TCP1 ? wrong
TCP2 ? Wrong
Other? Yup ... A special deal from LLNS/UC.
Look, all the upper level managers that were chosen by LANS and later LLNS during the transitions got very special sweetheart salary and retirement deals from the parent company. Any surprise there after all these years? Not if you were paying attention from the beginning! If you think rehashing this issue will bring current action, or even any concern, you are delusional. Get over it. Private companies can give whatever perks they want to favored employees. My advice? Try to become one.
Private companies can give whatever perks they want to favored employees. My advice? Try to become one.
October 26, 2010 9:43 PM
Well said!! Yours is probably the most well-grounded, rational, and realistic post made on this blog for many months. You aren't in UC-land any more, people! Get used to it. Pretend you work for a company where nothing matters but your abilities and your accomplishments (as defined by your boss). It's true. Welcome to the real world.
October 29, 2010 8:43 PM
Gee, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to post a comment Geroge.
October 6, 2010 10:12 PM
Don't worry when we're out of this recession in about 10- 15 years things might get back to par but in the meantime just keep contributing and hope you get something out of it as social security goes away little by little for all that have paid into it for 40 years while they gave it away to all the parasite we have in this nation from all over the world. It's all good, brotha.
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