I have been considering applying for a position at Oak Ridge National Lab. In searching for information online (hoping to get a feeling for the work environment), I found the LLNL/LANL set of blogs, but I have seen nothing similar for ORNL.
Given that ORNL is also run by a private entity (UT-Battelle), are there similar problems? Do any readers have any opinions on ORNL?
Thank you!
Signed: anonymous coward
14 comments:
ORNL is run by the non-profit Battelle Institute for about $10 million per year. They had an increase in science funding of around 30% during during this last year and are growing rapidly.
This means they are hiring lots of new scientists. For example, ORNL recently reported to the media that they are hiring computer scientists at the rate of about one new CS employee per week! They currently have the fastest super-computer in the world (Jaguar) and are planning to further ramp-up their work in this area. They have been getting a large amount of stimulus money for science projects and the current long term trends of the nation favor labs like ORNL over this next decade. They will grow while LLNL and LANL will be shrinking. Labor costs and overhead at ORNL are also less than at LLNL or LANL. As far as retirement benefits go, they use a hybrid system that includes a 401k (with generous employer matches) done in tandem with a pension.
Oak Ridge is not too far from the Smokey Mountains, so the area is considered to be quite nice. Home prices are still reasonable, but going up as ORNL grows.
Overall, most of the DOE "energy" labs (esp. ORNL and PNNL) are doing very well and their future looks extremely bright. The NNSA "weapons" labs... not so much.
And, of course, if you read this blog, you already know about the incredibly low morale at LLNL and LANL and the fact that they are now controlled by "for profit" corporations like Bechtel along with an extremely risk adverse and highly dysfunctional NNSA.
Choose wisely. Your long term career depends on it.
Its in the south = low cost of living, little culture, boring lifestyles, slow, conservative, and still a bit racist. If that's the sort of life you like, you'll be happy there.
Everything said above here and VERY VERY Humid. In the winter, you'll get some snow. But you also get a real spring and fall to go with it. It usually does not cool down at night in the summer. Make sure you get a house with a really good AC unit. Did I mention the humidity?
"Its in the south = low cost of living, little culture, boring lifestyles, slow, conservative, and still a bit racist." - 7:00 AM
Practicing tired, worn out stereotypes, I see.
And what of California... is it still full of gangland "homies", incredibly high unemployment rates, ghost town suburbs full of foreclosed homes, rampant crime, and frequent mudslides and earthquakes? Oh, and let's not forget that it is a state that is so deeply in debt it is about to go bankrupted!
I've never thought of Tennessee as being a humid region. If you want to see real humidity, try the Gulf Coast states and the deep south.
"I found the LLNL/LANL set of blogs, but I have seen nothing similar for ORNL." (Post)
That tells you a lot right there, doesn't it? Seems the employees at ORNL are happy working at their lab.
Original poster here.
Thanks for all of your input! Yes, I would actually be applying for a computational scientist position, so perhaps I would be a computer scientist of the week.
I grew up in TN, so the weather would not be a problem. I live in New England currently and I prefer hot and humid to sub-zero wind chills.
I agree about the cultural comments though. Culturally, there are other areas that I would prefer. I will have to think about that.
I was mostly curious if ORNL has the same morale problems as LLNL/LANL, but it sounds like the energy and weapons labs are quite distinct.
Thanks again.
January 22, 2010 7:00 AM
Your arrogance is showing - it would probably be better for you to keep that dead end job at LLNL. Seems like a good fit.
Like to fish? Like to waterski? How about hiking? Biking? Dirt track stock car racing? How about football (high school all the way up to the UT Vols)? Or first class basketball? Yeah, its a bit humid in summer, but where else can your kids fill a jar with fireflies in June, while you're burning the beef on the barbie? Been there, done that, love to go back.
ORNL did a "refresh" of their old 1950's buildings during the late 90's so their campus is now a pretty spiffy place.
Also, Ashville, NC is just on the other side of the Smokey Mountains. It's sometimes referred to as "the Santa Fe of the East" and a very nice place to visit for a weekend get-a-way.
It is not just the management, the llnl culture itself is sick. The management sets up the employees to compete agressively for a 1-n ranking. In turn, many employees do what ever it takes in order to get ahead. Stay as far away as you can.
Make sure ORNL doesnt rank employees 1-n.
I'm not sure how the LLNL 1-n ranking works, but I hate to tell you that ranking systems are common in the corporate world.
I work in the research division of one of the largest corporations in the world and everyone within in a group is ranked on an annual basis. Not just that, but the ranking is fit roughly to a bell curve, so those ranked at the bottom (even if they actually did a good job) are put into performance programs that generally lead to termination. Even if the person manages to keep their job, their time spent in the program is horrific and they will not receive a raise for that 18-month cycle.
Managers change about every 3 years. Your rating is essentially a poll of how your manager and his/her manager like you, so your fortunes can change rapidly. There is also always the danger that the company will sell the division that you work most closely with and you be let go for having an outdated skill set.
In short, I would advise against seeking solace as a scientist in the corporate world.
In short, relative value ranking was invented by a maniac, Harvard Business school polluted mind to make sure that 50% of the people get screwed regardless of how hard they work!
Which is better to work for, Oak Ridge or Livermore?
Well, just decide which "B" you really wish to work under:
(B)echtel -- a politically connected and very sleazy construction company..
..or..
(B)attelle -- a private, non-profit research institute of high integrity.
Does that help? You might also wish to consider which of the two labs is more likely to encounter layoffs in the next few years. Hint: It's the lab that begins with the letter "L".
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