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Monday, November 9, 2015

Time Magazine Fusion Article (and reactions)

Time Magazine Fusion Article

There is an excellent article inside and on the cover of the Time Magazine publication dated November 2, 2015 dealing with how various FUSION projects are going.

The major focus of the article concerns an Orange Country California company called Tri Alpha.

Most FUSION projects are using a combination of Hydrogen Isotopes named Deuterium and Tritium as fuel to use in their reactors.

The upside to using these as fuels is that they will fuse at low temperatures. Making things easier.

However, this produces radiation and you have to heat steam, that turns turbines to produce electricity.

With Tri Alpha's approach, they use Hydrogen and Boron as fuel.

This is called Aneutronic Fusion as little or no neutrons are produced in the reaction.

The neutrons carry radiation.

There are two advantages to this, there is very little radiation, and electricity is produced in the reaction itself, not needing to heat steam and turn turbines.

Some naysayers say that the 3 Billion degrees Centigrade needed to do this makes things too difficult.

Tri Alpha personnel point out that heavy ion colliders have produced temperatures of 3.8 Trillion degrees Centigrade.

There are a number of companies throughout the world doing FUSION projects.

If they can do this we are home free on the clean energy front.

NIF was not even mentioned.....it's not a player in the quest for fusion.

http://time.com/4082939/inside-the-quest-for-fusion-clean-energys-holy-grail/?xid=homepage&pcd=hp-magmod



REACTIONS:
November 6, 2015 at 5:03 AM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
Apparently your entire knowledge of science comes from Time magazine. Hint: don't embarrass yourself by trying to create a synopsis of a science article you didn't understand on a blog populated by scientists.
November 6, 2015 at 9:48 AM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Blog populated by scientists"? This doesn't explain all the LANL people on this site.
November 6, 2015 at 10:30 AM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
I don't know what 9:48's problem is. I've worked in the field and find nothing wrong with the synopsis above.
November 6, 2015 at 12:11 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
The NIF people must be furious with that article, especially those involved in the Moses-Hurricane high-foot break-even scam. I can see Goldstein and others trying to figure out how to upstage this article. No doubt calls have gone out to various press outlets trying to promote some recent "advances" on NIF.
November 6, 2015 at 12:16 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
I see what you did there, 10:30. Well played, sir, well played...
November 7, 2015 at 4:18 AM
 Delete
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I see what you did there, 10:30. Well played, sir, well played...

November 7, 2015 at 4:18 AM

A well tuned and refined appreciation for snarkiness. The LLNL brand.
November 7, 2015 at 9:12 AM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
History will come to view NIF as the Spruce Goose of fusion energy. It could even become a stop-off for tourists visiting the local wine country. Heck, NIF could team up with a local winery and market "NIF Fusion Chardonnay".
November 7, 2015 at 3:57 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
The Spruce Goose at least got off the ground.
November 7, 2015 at 4:28 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
Entropy Cellars makes a wine called Fusion. Word is Moses was a big customer.
November 7, 2015 at 5:18 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Spruce Goose at least got off the ground.

November 7, 2015 at 4:28 PM

I think you mean "off the water."
November 7, 2015 at 7:53 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
"History will come to view NIF as the Spruce Goose of fusion energy".

Interesting metaphor that may be an appropriate metaphor for LLNL itself. It could be argued that the CA/Berkeley/LLNL role were little more than a token Washington acknowledgement that West Coast liberalism and intellectualism had at least some relevance to the cold war enterprise.
November 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
The Spruce Goose at least got off the ground.

November 7, 2015 at 4:28 PM

That is true but it did not really fly it was more like an ekranoplans. Still better than NIF.
November 7, 2015 at 9:07 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
NIF and the Spruce Goose? Has anyone seen Ed lately? Any chance he his hair is now down to his waist, he has three-inch fingernails and is holed up at Extended Stay and guarded by Mormons?
November 8, 2015 at 6:18 PM
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Anonymous Anonymous said...
6:18 - awesome Howard Hughes reference

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Arizona Tile has a granite called "Fusion"!

Anonymous said...

I don't know what 9:48's problem is. I've worked in the field and find nothing wrong with the synopsis above.

November 6, 2015 at 12:11 PM

Well, ok.
1. FUSION isn't all caps, and hydrogen, deuterium and tritium are not capitalized unless they are the first words in sentences. Minor problems, but they do make the writer look like a doofus.
2. Neutrons don't "carry" radiation, they are just neutrons.
3. Biggest technical issue, how is electricity produced in the reaction itself? The reaction produces 9 MeV alphas, which stop locally and produce heat. The Time article is blocked unless you are a subscriber, so it is no help explaining what is meant here.
4. Colliders do not produce temperature, which is a characteristic of a thermal distribution. 3.8 trillion degrees as a temperature is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

It amazing how these "fusion crackpot/or crackpipe ?" companies attract funding. Must be a lot of dumb wealthy creationist types that run hedge funds. No ? No physics knowledge is required what so ever !

Anonymous said...

It amazing how these "fusion crackpot/or crackpipe ?" companies attract funding. Must be a lot of dumb wealthy creationist types that run hedge funds. No ? No physics knowledge is required what so ever !

November 9, 2015 at 11:01 PM

So your referring to LLNL?

Anonymous said...

Colliders do not produce temperature, which is a characteristic of a thermal distribution. 3.8 trillion degrees as a temperature is ridiculous.

November 9, 2015 at 9:42 PM

I am not the FUSION poster, so I might be another "doofus". However let me point out that colliders do actually produce temperature. This is what is studied for instance at RHIC with Star and Phenix (Called the quark gluon plasma). The plasma then cools down.

Anonymous said...

I don't think 5:24 am understands what the word "temperature" means.

Anonymous said...

Neither do you !

Anonymous said...

I don't think 5:24 am understands what the word "temperature" means.

Here is 5:24 again:

Below a few articles to educate you a bit. Always glad to be of service.
But then ignorance is bliss.

https://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/132

https://www.bnl.gov/rhic/newphysics.asp

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01548770




Anonymous said...

Here is 5:24 again:
One more hint , so that maybe you can understand my point better:
Use the equipartition theorem and you might be able to see why colliders or regular fixed target experiment for that matter actually lead to temperature changes.

Anonymous said...

You can't expect someone from LANL to just start adding 1/2*kB*T. That's complicated physics. Not even Petuchini, Fettuccini, or whatever his name is can do that. Charlie M. would understand, but that's because he's from Livermore.

Anonymous said...

All the great weapons scientists (Jas Mercer-Smith, John Pedicini, etc) think that NIF is a joke.

Anonymous said...

The problem with Livermore scientists is that they are trying to make the concept of "temperature" more difficult to understand that it really is. That's why they can't achieve fusion at NIF. It's not that difficult guys, just ask for help from Los Alamos and they will make it happen. But no, your too proud of your long list of failures to long to discuss.

Anonymous said...

Let's not forget that it was the bozos at ERDA (now DOE) that cut off funding for all of the high-beta concepts that are now seeing a resurgence with private financing. One more example of DOE picking losers like ICF (NIF) and Tokamaks (ITER).

Anonymous said...

Here is 5:24 again:

Amazing how quickly the discussions deteriorate. From a physics explanation to bashing LLNL and LANL. I have worked at both places, still work at LANL and always felt that most people at both places I met were interesting and capable people.
Apparently I looked in the wrong places.

Instead of pointing out each others failure, how about taking a more positive approach and talk about successes?

Anonymous said...

Every school boy in Gottingen knows what temperature means, but apparently some Los Alamos scientists do not. Pointing out the same error in other links does not change what it means.

Anonymous said...

Here is 5:24 again:
Try Göttingen. I hope the school boys there can type the name of their city at least correctly, having obviously problems with thermodynamics. But then maybe the school girls know it.

Anonymous said...

Those Göttingen school girls would presumably also understand the concept of thermodynamic equilibrium, and why applying the equipartition theorem to define a "temperature" in non-equilibrium (e.g., collider) conditions is meaningless. Silly girls.

Anonymous said...

Here is 5:24 again:

While I gave you references supporting my points from the scientific literature, I have seen nothing so far from you besides statements. Until you provide me with arguments ,supported by literature, proving me to be wrong, I will from now on just ignore you.
Ignorance paired with arrogance is always a bad combo.
Good day.

Anonymous said...

the amount of trolling and counter-trolling here makes visiting this site an entertaining experience.

Anonymous said...

Vic Reis was responsible for advocating NIF to Congress. Unfortunately, NIF is like the New Mexico Railrunner (commuter train). It's not "cost effective" to stop operating it even though it's losing money everyday.

Anonymous said...

This thread began weak and decayed rapidly. Hope the half life is short.

Anonymous said...

2:23 pm doesn't know what relevant scientific literature means, either. Ho hum.

Anonymous said...

" Unfortunately, NIF is like the New Mexico Railrunner (commuter train). It's not "cost effective" to stop operating it even though it's losing money everyday."

Hi there ! Let's not talk about Jerry Brown's CA bullet train ! $90B and rising !
Makes NIF, the Super Collider, ground and outer space-based telescopes and all US science projects pale in comparison. I sure won't pay $1500 for a round-trip ticket to LA along the scenic route down highway 99. Damn !

Anonymous said...

Jerry Brown is happy only to see his face in the mirror. Effective governance is a sideshow.

Anonymous said...

...like and mention of science in this thread

Anonymous said...

California's problem isn't its government. It is the people. Migrants searching for something that isn't there ruined what was there. The result is an unbalanced struggle for natives and interlopers alike. Don't come, the California you dream of is no more.

But Oregon and Texas... there is the future.

Anonymous said...

And you dopers, Denver beckons.. and Jihadis, NYC and DC are key to your rapid journey to the afterlife..

Anonymous said...

Scooby stealth deletion!!

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