Posted anon:
The situation is beginning to take on a moral tone.
So the question arises for managers.
Do you follow orders or risk personal punishment?
Historically many people failed that test. My Lai, collaboration with Nazi occupation forces, McCarthyism.
I'm betting on most just following orders and loading their coworkers into the ovens.
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17 comments:
You're going to find most people will do as the wise posters at the URL below have said. I would advise everyone to take care of themselves and forget LLNL ever existed.
Copy and paste the following URL and then read it very carefully. Anything else you do will be like pissing into the wind. You're only going to get wet and stinking. How do you want to come out in the end. Stinking or smelling like a rose?
http://llnlthetruestory.blogspot.com/2008/05/summation-of-situation-sos.html
I think comparing what is going on at the Lab to mass murder is way out of line. Particularly with regard to how managers and managed "follow orders".This is a job we are talking about, not mass murder. In a job you, as an employee, have an obligation to basically shut up and get to work and like it or quit. If the employer finds it necessary to lay people off (you perhaps) then you, as an employee, need to suck it up and get on with your life (unless the employer shows bias in their layoff practices).The employer is bound by law as to what they can say or do to an employee.
Note new side bar link. How Hungry Are You. May I suggest you take advantage of a head hunter in todays times. I just paid for this service and fell better already.
LLNL is dead.
Let it go and find yourself a better place. Do yourself a favor as you go out the gate. Never look back with any regrets. LLNL was just a stepping stone to a better life. You have to stay positive especially if you are young.
If you feel bad, just think what the employees whose dreams vanished the day LLNS took control just as NNSA / DOE had it planned. These employees dreams were destroyed and ULM could give a damn less. They're all about themselves.
May 5, 2008 6:32 PM
The question is about following orders that are immoral. The argument "I was just following orders..." has been used to justify horrible acts.
Making comments about obligation to work is a weak argument. The people who worked at the Lab were not serfs. Whose responsibility was it to report a problem with safety, security, conflict of interest? The employee. The classes we took over and over again stressed that when something was wrong we were supposed to report it and stop the activity.
LLNS has been shown to be doing actions that are immoral and/or illegal. Delaying retirement contributions, skirting the rules on employee notification, deception in the bidding process are just a few mentioned on this blog.
LLNS did not try to nogotiate a special tax rate like some big businesses have done with states. They did not try to leverage capital or any other fiscal technique to spread out the impact. Instead they went directly to job cuts.
Like it or not a lot of people have invested a lot of their lives working at LLNL and it feels like death to them right now. Some will die for real, from stress or suicide.
Now if you are a group leader or manager are you going to help the people you should be leading or are you going to help GM destroy what's left of those people's lives? There is no being neutral here, you either have blood on your hands or you don't.
"Making comments about obligation to work is a weak argument."
You signed a contract. you are now obligated. If you violate the contract you will be fired. Morality has nothing to do with it.That's the way it is in the real world.
"Now if you are a group leader or manager are you going to help the people you should be leading or are you going to help GM destroy what's left of those people's lives?"
If you were a group leader, you would
obey orders. Very few group and division leaders will show compassion because they are trying to cover their posterior!
Looks like the original poster hit a nerve....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Defense
It's just like what people here are posting!
Showing emotion in public is not professional. It's also a slippery slope. If you show a little, maybe you end up showing a lot.
Everyone is coping as best they can. Nobody expected things to get this bad.
Moral Tone? This is déjà vu for me. I've been through this 7 times now. The big difference here is no one ever expected it. The precedence here has been you do your job, you're going to retire here. Sounds like the philosphy of IBM back in the 60's. The big problem here is too many people have their eyes closed. We saw it with LANL - HELLO is there anybody in there? This really stinks and there is really nothing we can do. In so far as showing emotion - it will happen. Most will cry, some will start yelling and calling people names and others may do worse. It's going to be hard to find enough escorts to keep everyone at bay.
May 6, 2008 8:06 AM
Nuremberg!? There is no analog between the extermination of millions of people and getting laid off. If any of you think there is, then I think you need counciling.This is a layoff.No one gets shot, gassed or tortured. Assume the lotus position and breath deeply.v
"We saw it with LANL"
Yes, it is amazing how many people fell for the tcp1 "bait and switch" knowing what happened with LANL.
May 6, 2008 8:06 AM
Sure, this is no big deal. Then why all the precautions being taken, including escorting offsite and transition centers?
Here's a clue. People who worked for decades in one place and actually believed that serving their country was worth the sacrifices tend to have stronger ties to their career than a burger flipper.
It's not "just a job". It's a life's work, what defined you and what your family was proud of you for. For many scientists and engineers, what they worked on was so unique they have no other job opportunities. To them these layoffs are like collecting an artist's work and burning it in front of them.
No one ( hopefully ) is being physically killed. The death is one of the spirit. To have your life crushed this way is just as bad to many people here.
You get into that lotus position and start meditating about the meaning of compassion.
Yes! Compassion is what is missing here. After all, that is what differentiates between humans and robots.
May 6, 2008 6:31 PM
"It's not "just a job". It's a life's work...these layoffs are like collecting an artist's work and burning it in front of them."
Very well said. I'm sure you've captured the essence of how a lot of us feel, and why this betrayal has been such a bitter pill to swallow.
May 6, 2008 6:31 PM
Sounds like you made a mistake coming to work at the Lab. You did have a choice, didn't you?
I'm with Neko It's 8 times for me I thought finally made it to a place where my work does mean something (NOT) neko did you know there's a Thoroughbred horse running down south called Neko Bay and she's a good will win next out watch for her at Hollywood Park.
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