Tuesday, February 5, 2013
Leave the furloughed works alone.
Shame on LLNS, LLNL, & Parney for not having the gumption to tell supervisors & bosses, in public forum (or in the Q&A), to leave the furloughed workers alone during their non scheduled work hours.
It is absolutely inappropriate (and illegal)to cut peoples salary via furloughs, and then covet their time off for free.
Don't do furloughs if you can't afford the work reductions too. Don't be ambiguous. If you want employee personal time off, then pay for the overtime. If you don't want to pay overtime - tough luck (that was why they were salaried to begin with).
You should be ashamed. Nothing is wrong with profit, but nothing is wrong with being human and caring for others either. It's called employee relations - you're supposed to build on this as a company.
This will without a doubt hurt your employees and their families. The least you can do is leave them alone once you've visited this harm upon them.
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79 comments:
Ok you are right. We should just fire people instead.
Ok you are right. We should just fire people instead.
February 5, 2013 at 6:53 PM
Actually, that would be far more humane, far better for the organization, and much cleaner and less stressful for the workers. Just be done with the number of RIFs required to solve the problem, and go on. This endless debate and stressing about furloughs, overtime, and other extraneous crap. As long as the RIFs are based solely on performance, and as long as legally-required notice is given, it would be the best for all concerned.
It is absolutely inappropriate (and illegal)to cut peoples salary via furloughs, and then covet their time off for free.
Huh?
The Q&A explicitly said that workers could not come to site on their furloughed days.
Project managers will have to articulate what scope is foregone, or at least delayed, while work proceeds at a reduced pace.
If anyone is thinking, the last thing the Lab wants is to have a furlough and then produce all deliverables as if nothing happened. Then the cuts will be permanent.
To that point. Planning for the furlough is unplanned scope, so is repsonding to it. All of the lost hours, probably 10% of the entire workforces work year, will be lost to the entropy of the change process.
These hours are lost to deliverables. The customer understands, 'cause its Congress's management of the sequestration that gave the marching orders.
Olly Olly Oxen Free!
Disruption will continue when the sequestration is cancelled at the last minute, and work must be replanned to spend the actual budget rather than the reduced budget. A nice problem to have, but more entropy, more workhours lost to planning, less hours available for planned objectives.
Huh twice. What the he'll are you talking about?? No one would be expected to work on their furlough days. That was made completely clear in Parney's column. Scope would have to be reduced. As the last poster said, the dumbest thing the lab could do would be to deliver scope at reduced cost! In fact, I'd expect overtime pay would also be cut.
If I were furloughed in the same year that my salary was reduced by an additional 7% to fund an overfunded pension program I would be livid.
And most certainly would not be around during unpaid time.
Does LLNL require employees to prepare LDRD proposals on their "own time?" If lab employees are restricted from going on site during furlough days, are they also restricted from working from home on furlough days also? For example, preparing LDRD presentations and proposals. Are employees under furlough truly treated as hourly workers under the law? If so, does this impact work done from home particularly on furlough days but also work that people take home to do in the evenings or weekends? This whole furlough business seems like a magnet for a lawsuit or two.
Are Exempt employees going to essentially become non-Exempt employees if furloughs are in place? If so, you aren't even supposed to check work email or write proposals on furlough days or even during off hours that you are not compensated for. The nature of work at the lab will be impacted. Any suggestion by management that you "float" some parts of your work outside of your paid weekly schedule would be illegal. Unless you are on a telecommute or other work agreement, employees have no business logging in through VPN after hours or on weekends unless they are being compensated based on an hourly rate. Unless there is some law that lets the lab furlough you one day every few weeks but maintain your exempt status though I can't see how you could have such a contradiction with any legal standing.
We are required to write proposals in our job description and they allow us to do it in our spare time.
I give up. It's become hopeless. The trend is one of never-ending down... down... down... cut... cut... cut...
It's no longer worth it. I'm turning in my famous "Shoes that GRIP!" for a better pair.
So you write a proposal in your job description, and that proposal includes "potentially developing more proposals (a la LDRD) during the year" but those tasks must be done on your own time. Or something to that effect. If you are regarded as non-Exempt (to the Fair Labor Practices Act) as a result of the furlough program, your company could possibly be breaking the law if it continues the practice of requiring you do some of that work on your own time. If LDRD proposal writing is considered "leisure" activity," it has no business compelling you to share anything about it anyways, as part of your work's job description. Furthermore, LDRD proposal writing is clearly "LAB WORK" anyways. It benefits the lab, if a proposal is selected for funding through the Lab LDRD process.
The lawsuit here could be to ensure that all Exempt employees subject to the furlough are recategorized as non-Exempt, unless the management is able to do a tightrope walk and is able to somehow set up a scheme where it can keep furloughed people as Exempt within the bounds of existing laws. I am not an employment law specialist but maybe someone out there has more clear insights on the impacts to your work based on current law.
Sorry should be Fair Labor Standards Act, I am starting to mix up all of my acronyms
Is anyone feeling some pressure with these possible furlough days to look for another job outside the Lab?
A lot of employees thought the Q&A was very helpful with explaining the situation to their bankruptcy lawyers.
Imagine that! The lab having to come up with charge codes for your time to work on LDRD proposals just because a furlough makes you a non-Exempt (e.g., hourly) worker. And they have to cover overtime too!
Either they should put limits onto how much time is put into LDRD (while also providing a charge code),
Limit LDRD proposals to only Exempt employees NOT subject to the furlough (i.e., protected),
Suspend LDRD altogether during a furlough.
Centralize LDRD decision making and funding allocation to management with minimal input (one pagers proposals, title, PI, budget)
Minimal LDRD reviews and presentations (time = money)
That begs another question regarding how you handle travel for non-Exempt employees. The trip to the airport and such, must time spent in transit be compensated as well?
I give up. It's become hopeless. The trend is one of never-ending down... down... down... cut... cut... cut...
It's no longer worth it. I'm turning in my famous "Shoes that GRIP!" for a better pair.
February 6, 2013 at 10:08 AM
Apparently you're the only one on this blog with any sense. Good luck!
Furloughs are bad for all of the above reasons and more for the national labs. It's going to have greater impacts on program deliverables than lay-offs, plus the downward impact on morale will be manifested in a different way. One of the upsides of the furlough is that it IS reversible, assuming the sequestration issue is settled and funding levels return to previous levels. On the other hand, the lab should be taking the opportunity to perform a "wash" and clean house a bit, and there is no better time to reduce costs and release unproductive members of the staff than at the start of the sequestration cuts.
If a 10% cut is going to be forcing people into bankruptcy, then maybe furloughs should only apply to those at the higher salary scale (say 80k+) where the effective reduction in pay can be covered by reduced (but hopefully temporary) reductions to retirement contributions, curbing your Faberge Eggs addiction, etc. Those scientists are overpaid anyways.
"Is anyone feeling some pressure with these possible furlough days to look for another job outside the Lab?"
I think I may start applying at SNL, their management seems much more competent. I have not heard of layoffs or furloughs over there, seems like they have thought this out and have positioned the staff in a better position for sequestration. Not too mention engineers are more appreciated across the street. On the other hand their contract is going up for rebid too, so that is some uncertainty.
" Those scientists are overpaid anyways."
Why not just fire the scientists, that would save a lot more money.
Why not just fire the scientists, that would save a lot more money.
February 6, 2013 at 6:44 PM
and it certainly wouldn't hurt the scientific output.
I think I may start applying at SNL, their management seems much more competent.... On the other hand their contract is going up for rebid too, so that is some uncertainty.
February 6, 2013 at 5:43 PM
Sorry to have to tell you this, 5:43 PM, but last I heard Lockheed had decided to join with "The Borg" (aka Bechtel) for the next bid at SNL. If you think you can run away from your current lab's problems by simply jumping ship to SNL, think again.
The miasma that emanates from Bechtel will soon be overtaking every last nook & cranny in the NNSA empire! Their stench is overpowering.
I think I may start applying at SNL, their management seems much more competent.... On the other hand their contract is going up for rebid too, so that is some uncertainty.
February 6, 2013 at 5:43 PM
Sorry to have to tell you this, 5:43 PM, but last I heard Lockheed had decided to join with "The Borg" (aka Bechtel) for the next bid at SNL. If you think you can run away from your current lab's problems by simply jumping ship to SNL, think again.
The miasma that emanates from Bechtel will soon be overtaking every last nook & cranny in the NNSA empire! Their stench is overpowering.
February 6, 2013 at 10:28 PM
One thing I'll give Sandia is that they have actual job openings. On the other hand, LANL has stagnated to the point that they virtually have no job openings, the LISC has literally "increased the viscocity" per McMillan's words, to the point LANL needs a laxative.
So Parney, you read this stuff, comment on how you like your job now. Come on, be a man and come forward.
So long as Lockheed Martin takes the lead, Bechtel cannot hurt Sandia. It is the senior leadership at Sandia who would part of the management team for the new LLC. So if you start with and retain very good professional and well trained management, then it's hard to expect a dramatic downturn by bringing in a few Bechtel people. The thing that could wreck Sandia though is a system of bad incentives brought on by a new management structure. If the bid is structured so that sandia management are no longer corporate officers of Lockheed, then you may lose some of those positive drivers. Lockheed needs to keep being the driver in order to maintain the relatively healthy and productive culture at Sandia. Bechtel has no choice but to also promote that same organizational culture if they are to be part if the bid. But an LLC approach where Lockheed only has an arm's lengthy relationship with the lab sounds like a recipe for disaster of LLNS/LANS proportions.
The LLC approaches are all destined to fail badly because the parent companies as part of the LLC partnerships have no vested interest other than the short term fees they collect, to maintain a healthy and viable organization for the long run. Parent companies for the LLCs are removed from liability for negligence and poor governance by the LLC. So there is your perverse incentive. Do as little as you can get away with as an LLC managing a government lab.
NNSA is considering lumping the KCP contract with SNL. If that happens, the management team will mostly likely emulate the model that all PAs have now: When the NNSA Federal Program manager asks them to jump, they respond "how high?" Then SNL employees might be the ones looking to come work north of East Ave.
"The LLC approaches are all destined to fail badly because the parent companies as part of the LLC partnerships have no vested interest other than the short term fees they collect, to maintain a healthy and viable organization for the long run. Parent companies for the LLCs are removed from liability for negligence and poor governance by the LLC."
Exactly.
That's the root cause of pretty much every complaint on this blog.
That's the root cause of pretty much every complaint on this blog.
February 7, 2013 at 5:34 PM
The sad part is that's really all there is on this blog. So many people with nothing positive in their lives.
Gentlemen
I contend that the problem with the labs is the workforce. They feel they are owed something, that they are special, and have a bad outlooks. A good approach is take the science out of the labs and leave that to be contracted out to Universities at much lower rates.
We should than have a new technical workforce but not a scientific workforce. The technical workforce will have the know how to deal with the lab needs but will not have the baggage that goes along with the scientific outlook. Another thing will to be create a new degree program at local Universities which would consist of a bs and ms, done in conjunction with the labs. This will reduce Phds get workers with the right skills, and get workers with the right expectations on lab work rather than the scientific work that students usually get at Phd training. Although this would cost some money on the short it will save a more money on the long run and will get a proper workforce. It is a win for the labs, the costumers, NNSA, and LLCs. Lets do this people.
Not all PhD are bad. I know several BS and MS people who are exactly what you describe and have more power than a person with a PhD and are completely uneducated on the subjects they are talking about. I also know several PhD that think they are special. I have a PhD, but everything I learned I learned after my PhD. The tools I learned in the field are much more valuable than the degree. You have a lot of people who have a PhD that go into management and do not get real world experience and are insecure. This is the problem. It is really a question of creating a more ethical integrity orient environment.
A good approach is take the science out of the labs and leave that to be contracted out to Universities at much lower rates.
This is just idiotic. Purging the science out of the main national security labs will do more damage to long-term national security than almost anything else.
We should than have a new technical workforce but not a scientific workforce.
Nice. How about this for the new motto: "The world's worst science protecting America".
Take the "science" out of the NNSA labs and put them into a more "pure" institution and there will be almost no money left for LDRD and related types of research.
Most of the research staff left in this "pure science" institution would have no idea (or ability) to bring in outside funding to feed their research quests and the expensive equipment it would required. This ethereal "science lab" would quickly die.
Can amend the statement and say "take the bad or mediocre science out of the NNSA Labs." There are many good points here. If you were to cut out the bottom X% of the PhDs, output of high quality work would not change much. Averaged over the labs I would say that X = 25% or so. That would reduce costs by alot.
Can amend the statement and say "take the bad or mediocre science out of the NNSA Labs." There are many good points here. If you were to cut out the bottom X% of the PhDs, output of high quality work would not change much. Averaged over the labs I would say that X = 25% or so. That would reduce costs by alot.
February 9, 2013 at 2:18 AM"
The bottom 25% are going to be the last that go. The top people get fed up and leave. The bottom 25% are the ones that management loves so much. They do not complain, they follow rules, they do not have this I am special point of view. What you claim is the bottom 25% is in many ways the top 25% and they are exactly who should be kept. The labs would have fewer problems if we only kept these people. The point is something is just not working at the labs. One point of view is that we simply have the wrong workforce for the job. Clean up the workforce and there will be no more complaints. The idea of science lab may be one of the root problems. We are not science labs but rather capability labs. As such Phd may be too specialized to jump from capability to capability so maybe just some bs, ms or less might be the best thing. Some people with on the job training that see no problem with jumping around different capabilities and working in teams.
Reading some of the comments about getting rid of PhDs and science at the labs, leaves me with the sad conclusion that Bechtel has reached its goal: make the labs engineering places.
This whole notion of capabilities is just more management speak, but has nothing to do with a science lab.
At one point LANL was actually LASL, but I guess most people have forgotten that.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Can amend the statement and say "take the bad or mediocre science out of the NNSA Labs." There are many good points here. If you were to cut out the bottom X% of the PhDs, output of high quality work would not change much. Averaged over the labs I would say that X = 25% or so. That would reduce costs by alot.
February 9, 2013 at 2:18 AM"
The bottom 25% are going to be the last that go. The top people get fed up and leave. The bottom 25% are the ones that management loves so much. They do not complain, they follow rules, they do not have this I am special point of view. What you claim is the bottom 25% is in many ways the top 25% and they are exactly who should be kept. The labs would have fewer problems if we only kept these people. The point is something is just not working at the labs. One point of view is that we simply have the wrong workforce for the job. Clean up the workforce and there will be no more complaints. The idea of science lab may be one of the root problems. We are not science labs but rather capability labs. As such Phd may be too specialized to jump from capability to capability so maybe just some bs, ms or less might be the best thing. Some people with on the job training that see no problem with jumping around different capabilities and working in teams."
Wow I am glad you are not running a company. You constantly talk about not complaining, The real question is productivity and effectiveness. Complaining means there is a problem. Getting rid of the people who care and have integrity is your solution, just keep the followers. Really. That sounds like the communist party.
Better yet. I think you should go to google and yahoo and tell them you have a perfect plan to expand their business. Cut out anyone who thinks for themselves and lives off complete government funding. Or you could just listen to people, make a more productive environment (by developing technologies -- one good idea can make a billion dollars), run the lab less top heavy, serve the nation and its important goals and become the best national laboratory.
"Complaining means there is a problem. Getting rid of the people who care and have integrity is your solution, just keep the followers. Really. That sounds like the communist party.
February 9, 2013 at 7:17 AM"
Perhaps it never occurred to you people that the problem is you. The labs have had problem after problem, the questions is why. Nanos said to the workforce that do not get it, and this is and always has been the problem, you do not get it. You have a job to do, so do it. This is not a playground for Phds. Such playgrounds are at universities that create that kind of attitude that we do not need. Someone said something about GOOGLE. Their workers get it, they do not complain and they do their jobs. It is time to "get it".
"Perhaps it never occurred to you people that the problem is you. The labs have had problem after problem, the questions is why. Nanos said to the workforce that do not get it, and this is and always has been the problem, you do not get it. You have a job to do, so do it. This is not a playground for Phds. Such playgrounds are at universities that create that kind of attitude that we do not need. Someone said something about GOOGLE. Their workers get it, they do not complain and they do their jobs. It is time to "get it"."
Times are changing and things are failing. Perhaps a rapid change is needed to save eveyone's jobs or should be just let it fail.
By the way, people at google, apple, and yahoo do listen to their workers and encourage open thought.
Their workers get it, they do not complain and they do their jobs. It is time to "get it".
February 10, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Yes, Comrade! All praise to the Worker's Paradise! The only thing holding you back is that the workers are not sheep! Oh..wait...
At Los Alamos, the word "science" is being purged. We are now a capabilities lab, an applied lab, a materials lab, a national security lab, and energy lab, a green lab, but never a science lab. The definition depends on the the manager who is saying it, which of course means there is no real definition. You can call it what you want but one thing should always be at the bottom line and that is excellence. The different definitions are bandied about usually to justify mediocrity. When called on this the reply is that mediocrity and excellence are all in the eye of the beholder so they have no value. What might be seen as mediocre to you or other managers could be seen as excellence to a specific manager and there is no way to distinguish. Seems rather odd. The place has really changed over the last 20 yrs. In my perception it has gotten much worse and is losing value to the nation. But my perception is no better or worse than any other perception who may claim things are much better.
"Yes, Comrade! All praise to the Worker's Paradise! The only thing holding you back is that the workers are not sheep! Oh..wait...
February 10, 2013 at 9:44 PM"
The commie nonsense needs to stop. The fact is the lab has thankfully embraced the full capitalist systems. In such a system we will sink or swim based on our sales to our costumers. It is true that most business fail and we should not be an exception to the rule. The marketplace will work this out in end as it should be.
The models where workers put in their input at Google and Yahoo may work on their market conditions but the labs are different, so such a comparison is pointless. Again you people need to get it. You have a job to do, do your job and thats it.
Right, it's only a job. No better or more important to the nation than the grocery delivery boy. In fact, the pay and benefits and the employee treatment should be no better than a grocery delivery boy. Only the boss and owners of the "business" count.
I get it. The Bechtel mindset in spades!
Not only should you just do your job, but you should forget about the fact that you are much more highly educated, experienced, and knowledgeable about your job than your bosses will ever be, and just shut up.
Previous poster is right. Get back into your cube/office and get back to work. You have a choice to stay or leave. If it's bad at your lab, don't blame your management for the misery you face by you choosing to stay. Sorry that the "promise" of so-called job security is all a myth. There are no guarantees in life. If you choose to stay hoping that somehow things will change, be prepared to only blame yourselves when things stay the same or get worse. If you are happy there, then more power to you. Yes this a cold hearted approach. But the glory days of the labs are long gone. The Cold War is history. China is competitor, not our mortal enemy. If you aren't willing to adapt, then you have no business complaining about what you can not change.
Yeh, read the post above. Even though you exercise and don't smoke, it is your fault you got cancer - stop your whining!
Pursuing NIF ignition is like seeking out the cure for cancer. And that's from the horse's mouth. Pretty sure that the horse is not going to make it with that specific treatment.
If you got cancer, you can either (a) do something and get it treated and you can (b) complain incessantly about how you got the short end of the stick. So yeah, stop whining and do something productive and meaningful about it. You only have yourself to blame if you don't treat your illness and things go for the worse.
Hey, who says that people who complain about management incompetence are not productive? In fact, they could be the remaining islands of productivity in the otherwise rotting institution. People who know their worth are the ones not afraid to state their opinion.
On the other hand, I bet that the idiots who'd like to take science out of National Labs don't complain even when their manager sexually assaults his subordinate. They may well be the future. LANS: Delivering obedience and compliance for the sake of the Nation. ^TM
Apparently, Parney's one lab means LLNL employees are at the one lab where employees are screwed with the most.
The lab can't differentiate between good science and mediocre science. Cutting out the mediocrity means getting rid of the laser EoS team, which would gut their effort completely.
IT stands to reason that you cut out science from LLNL. For a weapons lab, they can't even do weapons relevant science well. In fact they are mediocre (and i'm being overly generous with them too) in laser driven equations of state and materials strength experiments. Cut out science? Yeah. The other two labs do a credible job in these fields. LLNL is truly an embarrassment to the scientific community. Heck, they just came off the golden era with Tomas at the helm of the science. Well, Tomas is gone. and NOTHING HAS CHANGED with the quality or direction of their science. You just have people leading projects not fit to lead scientific efforts, and all paid for by the tax-payer.
Heck, they just came off the golden era with Tomas at the helm...
Was that "golden" as in "shower"?
Previous poster is right. Get back into your cube/office and get back to work.
February 11, 2013 at 3:24 PM:
You are obviously oblivious to my sarcasm. What a thick-skull! Do you ever, ever, ever, pause to consider that what you say is absolute nonsense and just intellectual garbage? Oh, I know, intellect is the enemy.
You are at LLNL and don't know who <*<*<*Tomas*>*>*> is? The well known Tomas Diaz de la Rubia, touted advancing science and engineering in the Hispanic community. How can you NOT know of him? Even Sandians and Los Alamosans know of him. There is only one Tomas that matters. Runs a consultancy, forgot the name but something like FMLInternational Consultancy. A one man two-bit operation.
People don't refer to him by his last name. Too many syllables. He is the Spanish version of the Dos Equis "most Interesting Man In The World."
Most interesting? How about "Most unethical and corrupt?" But he was not the sole reason why the lab is in such bad shape. There are many more unethical mediocrities and "lil Hitlers" still at the lab up and down the line and program management chain.
I heard the guy is suing the lab for wrongful termination. There goes your pension. Legal fees will come out of your retirement fund.
I know pension discussions, like those of Tomas, are unrelated to your furlough panic. Even though pension drain is a longer term issue, you should pay attention to things like this, and even understand who Tomas is and what he did to the lab. Just sayin. How could labbies not know who he is? This is a LLNL forum after all.
Lab managers are posting attempting to stop embarrassing topics about the lab. So don't be deterred by people trying to stop you from posting. In fact do the opposite and post more. You are on the right track. These issues ARE relevant to LLNL employees.
The highly paid managers at the Bechtel-ized weapon labs are starting to get very nervous about the natives around them.
3:24 don't you ever realize that people post absurd troll pieces to make a point or to bait other trollers and the occasional true believers into spouting off more? Get your grippy shoes on, dude.
3:24 don't you ever realize that people post absurd troll pieces to make a point or to bait other trollers...
February 13, 2013 at 6:12 PM
They're not "trollers" dimwit. No one is fishing here. Look up "troll" (the noun). Try to keep up.
I purposefully used another poster's term just so that you could blow a gasket and you did so predictably. Spelling and grammar nazis have nothing important to contribute to the blog discussions. Any more incorrect terms that bother you? I'll keep using those. In fact I encourage everyone else to keep using terms that bother the previous poster.
LOL I was thinking of doing the same thing. I'll call him the "Mad Troller" from now on. Because he's a troller and he's mad. haha
Online "grammar nazis" tend to follow a certain personality profile - one of an individual who was raised with high expectations, good schooling, told by parents that they were smart and would be successful, etc. etc., but then having relatively mediocre or unsuccessful careers that don't match the expectations ingrained into them when they were younger. So they tend to lash out demonstrating their superiority by correcting others, though unfortunately over unimportant things like grammar and syntax. Really sad. Generally an unhappy person. Again, constantly correcting others. Constantly thinking that they are the final arbiter in all discussions. I've come across a number of these types from the labs. In a very small minority of course. And they are a bit more subtle in person because instant feedback is a bitch to them. But their presence is very easily identifiable once you know what to look for.
"February 13, 2013 at 8:50 PM"
Please use proper gramnmer and spelling when you post. Your trolling is not catching and fish because this is a blog not a lake. It does anoy me to know end when people dont use proper grammer. I am very anoyed at my own post so you cant say I am a hypocrate.
February 13, 2013 at 8:50 PM
Thank you, Dr. Phil. Your learned discourse on the pathological psychology of people who desire proper use of language is most illuminating. Of course anyone who criticizes anyone else should be hung at dawn. Except you, of course, to whom no rules apply.
LOL more trollers. Most are having fun with this. Only one seems to be mad.
Poor Mad Troller. When you nail him really good, he has to totally skew what others say so that in his own mind, he is totally right. After all, that's what mommy always said. Little Eggbert has to live up to such high expectations! Aww poor wittle Eggbert.
The Mad Troller's next response is going to be how stupid every one is and how thankful the whole world will be that this thread will soon be off of the first page.
Nah I'm pretty sure he will try to play some sort of double standard card and maybe hurl other insults. Or use the logic of the form: "poster can't spell, therefore any message they are trying to convey is not worth taking seriously." Also some statement about how this thread degenerated. More insults, and other statements to give the impression that he is somehow intellectually and morally superior. When in fact he just a mad troller fitting that psych profile perfectly. Completely predictable.
U kno his identity huh
Yikes. Do you guys behave like this in real life? Probably not; your wives would slap the shit out of you.
Pettiness is one thing. Landing a psych profile is plain brutal even if you are going after an online bully grammar nazi. Give him a break. All forums have bullies. Bullying the bully just further diverts attention from more relevant discussions.
Double standard card was used on the 8:50 post
The 8:50 post fits the profile perfectly. But that's irrelevant if you in fact are working off of his real identity.
The 8:50 post fits the profile perfectly. But that's irrelevant if you in fact are working off of his real identity.
February 14, 2013 at 9:51 AM
Huh??
This is what you get when yo "Leave the furloughed workers alone"
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