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Sunday, February 16, 2014
CIP question
What does everyone think of the CIP at LLNL?
47 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Most people would get more of a raise from having the pension liability recalculated and scaling back the employee contribution.
Insulting. The process costs more than most will receive. Why bother? My insurance cost went up more than I can possibly receive. Another year of negative take home.
Interest rates trending up = current value of future liabilities trending down.
February 16, 2014 at 10:40 PM
Wrong. Liabilities remain the same, although percentage funding of the plan may increase. Liabilities are solely dependent on demographics and actuarial analysis.
There is nothing to "hand out." They are studying whether they can afford to take the money from the current operating budget. That is how salary increases work. DOE/NNSA approves but provides no additional funds. I guess the choice boils down to no raise vs laying more people off in order to afford giving a raise to those left. I'd consider that a tough choice.
No one gets fired over the cip that LLNS submitted.
Worth repeating. LNLS submitted the cip they could afford - it was not forced upon them.
No sense getting stingy over about a nominal pay raise, because they'd rather spend overhead dollars someplace else (and spend them they will - regardless of rifs).
Notice that the root word in management, "manage"!
In the future, why doesn't LLNS stop submitting cip packages for their employees?
Prediction: Nothing will happen with the CIP until after Oct. 1. The talk about "LNLS submitted the cip they could afford - it was not forced upon them" is just talk. Times change, circumstances change, management changes it's mind. A gift promised is not a gift received. This whole issue probably seems like pretty small potatoes to those who lived under Knapp at LANL. Be thankful he hasn't revealed his dark side much yet. If he is chosen as the next Director, watch out.
LLNS doesn't have to give out raises, but then don't submit a cip. Save both the raise money and the management costs associated with the bid & its various committees & components.
Of course LLNS will have to explain to DOE why all the other science and national lab employees received them.
My opinion, replenishing a fund that was emptied by discretionary spending with the employees pay raise is bad form.
By my math, Facebook could recoup its investment in under 4 years, if they charge each user $10 per year. Currently the first year of WhatsApp is free, the second year $1. I wonder if Facebook can get away with it, since all trends point to younger teens ditching Facebook in droves.
And yes they'll be the ones to go away. Workers stay, management companies come & go.
February 24, 2014 at 6:25 AM
From the comment at February 22, 2014 at 1:03 PM, under the Wednesday, February 19, 2014 top post:
"When the money dries up and the long knives come out, the "problems" are the first to go - so if people want to be "problems", fine, but they need to be willing and prepared to bail out."
I couldn't have said it better myself. The discussion was about some people on this blog apparently believing they are bullet-proof, like you.
"I couldn't have said it better myself. The discussion was about some people on this blog apparently believing they are bullet-proof, like you.
February 24, 2014 at 9:40 AM"
You really seem to misunderstand the posts. The labs are just the workforce and the most talented have either left, could leave if they like, or are close of enough to retirement that it does not matter. That is the catch about talent you have to treat it well or lose it. Yes the best are bulletproof. The results of this can already be seen as some of the best have left and the labs are no longer even close to the same level they once where. The management has learned the hard way the talent is not replaceable.
The workers are not the "problems", the workers where never the "problem". The workers are the lab, that management not so much. Get rid of the workers and you have only management and you have no lab. You have to be a fool not to think those outside the US have been watching this. There will be real consequences.
February 24, 2014 at 7:21 PM said... There are MUCH better ways of being satisfied and happy with your career. Most of them don't involve working for people you despise.
Nicely put. You can usually put up with high-level people you never interact with - after all, the Democrats survived Bush, and the Republicans will survive Obama. But when there is a systemic problem with management reaching down to your immediate supervisors and colleagues and making you miserable on a daily basis, it might be time to rethink why you work where you work.
You obviously missed the little fact that the managing partner of LLNS, and the Chairman of the Board, and the President of LLNS, are UC people, not Bechtel.
47 comments:
Most people would get more of a raise from having the pension liability recalculated and scaling back the employee contribution.
Is there any evidence that a liability recalculation would have that result??
Interest rates trending up = current value of future liabilities trending down.
Management views our cip as an source of income.
Insulting. The process costs more than most will receive. Why bother? My insurance cost went up more than I can possibly receive. Another year of negative take home.
Interest rates trending up = current value of future liabilities trending down.
February 16, 2014 at 10:40 PM
Wrong. Liabilities remain the same, although percentage funding of the plan may increase. Liabilities are solely dependent on demographics and actuarial analysis.
Stop studying the cip & hand it out.
There is nothing to "hand out." They are studying whether they can afford to take the money from the current operating budget. That is how salary increases work. DOE/NNSA approves but provides no additional funds. I guess the choice boils down to no raise vs laying more people off in order to afford giving a raise to those left. I'd consider that a tough choice.
It's not an either or (pay raise or layoff). Raises have always come out of operating funds.
There was no problem in handing out the last operating fund budget surplus.
Of course they can afford it, and yes it comes out of operating fund. The same place the management fee & bonuses come from.
Where else would you think it comes from? The cafeteria tip jar?
LLNS itself submitted the CIP, and its not a large one by any means. Save money by cutting overhead expenses.
Of course they can afford it, and yes it comes out of operating fund. The same place the management fee & bonuses come from.
February 17, 2014 at 12:50 PM
Nope. Management fee comes after NNSA ratings and is earned separately from the operating budget. It is illegal to mix the two.
---
There was no problem in handing out the last operating fund budget surplus.
February 17, 2014 at 12:41 PM
Obviously there is no "surplus" if people are getting rif'ed.
No one gets fired over the cip that LLNS submitted.
Worth repeating. LNLS submitted the cip they could afford - it was not forced upon them.
No sense getting stingy over about a nominal pay raise, because they'd rather spend overhead dollars someplace else (and spend them they will - regardless of rifs).
Notice that the root word in management, "manage"!
In the future, why doesn't LLNS stop submitting cip packages for their employees?
Good point.
Submit the only cip you can afford, or none.
That way you can also cut the costs of putting one together and its execution.
Next FY don't submit a cip & avoid the drama.
How are all the other DOE science & national labs handling their raise packages?
Fire Moses, and divide one year of his salary among the survivors as a one-time bonus?
Prediction: Nothing will happen with the CIP until after Oct. 1. The talk about "LNLS submitted the cip they could afford - it was not forced upon them" is just talk. Times change, circumstances change, management changes it's mind. A gift promised is not a gift received. This whole issue probably seems like pretty small potatoes to those who lived under Knapp at LANL. Be thankful he hasn't revealed his dark side much yet. If he is chosen as the next Director, watch out.
>"Worth repeating. LNLS submitted the cip they could afford - it was not forced upon them."
Wrong. LLNL submitted a CIP request that was larger than what DOE/NSA granted.
The cip was not forced upon LLNS. Seems like a true statement to me.
Some would have us believe that pay raises are absurd, and that they come out of operating fund is cause for alarm.
Pay raises are a normal cost of doing business, and yes they do come out of operating funds.
Cut overhead spending for savings.
Give me my nickel or I will sue for 100 zillion dollars because I am a lab loser.
POS
LLNS doesn't have to give out raises, but then don't submit a cip. Save both the raise money and the management costs associated with the bid & its various committees & components.
Of course LLNS will have to explain to DOE why all the other science and national lab employees received them.
My opinion, replenishing a fund that was emptied by discretionary spending with the employees pay raise is bad form.
Leave. and retire.
50 people at WhatsApp created $17B in value for Facebook.
When the young folks leave in droves, CIPs get larger.
Or go in to your division leaders office and rationally express your displeasure. 180 visits will get her attention.
"50 people at WhatsApp created $17B in value for Facebook"
Kind of unbelievable, except that WhatsApp has over 450 million users outside of the US and Facebook is freaked out.
Maybe we can convince Facebook that Google is interested in Fusion Energy, and they better get on board !
By my math, Facebook could recoup its investment in under 4 years, if they charge each user $10 per year. Currently the first year of WhatsApp is free, the second year $1. I wonder if Facebook can get away with it, since all trends point to younger teens ditching Facebook in droves.
By my math, worker level miniscule pay raises, won't make or break the lab. It'd be refreshing if was handed out.
If you are the type to be refreshed by an insulting single drop when you are dying of thirst.
Take the drop, there will never be a thirst quencher from this LLC.
Take the drop, there will never be a thirst quencher from this LLC.
February 23, 2014 at 10:08 AM
Seems to me the only reasonable thing to do is look for a better water source.
Or get a new spigot manager, there seems to be plenty of water above.
You'd think these new management people invented and own the water.
Not invented, but they DO own it. Time you realized that, and paid them what they require for you to get it. Or go away.
Actually they don't. They've been hired to manage it. That explains the source of their arrogance.
In the long run, they will have made a lot of trouble for the real owners.
And yes they'll be the ones to go away. Workers stay, management companies come & go.
Actually they don't. They've only been hired to manage it. You've explained the source of their arrogance.
In the long run, they will have made a lot of trouble for the real owners.
And yes they'll be the ones to go away. Workers stay, management companies come & go.
Please learn how to stop double posting.
And yes they'll be the ones to go away. Workers stay, management companies come & go.
February 24, 2014 at 6:25 AM
From the comment at February 22, 2014 at 1:03 PM, under the Wednesday, February 19, 2014 top post:
"When the money dries up and the long knives come out, the "problems" are the first to go - so if people want to be "problems", fine, but they need to be willing and prepared to bail out."
I couldn't have said it better myself. The discussion was about some people on this blog apparently believing they are bullet-proof, like you.
So because some worker bees want their <1% pay raise, they should quit or be fired?
Nice work environment. There are better ways of avoiding cip distributions.
Nice work environment. There are better ways of avoiding cip distributions.
February 24, 2014 at 2:55 PM
There are MUCH better ways of being satisfied and happy with your career. Most of them don't involve working for people you despise.
"I couldn't have said it better myself. The discussion was about some people on this blog apparently believing they are bullet-proof, like you.
February 24, 2014 at 9:40 AM"
You really seem to misunderstand the posts. The labs are just the workforce and the most talented have either left, could leave if they like, or are close of enough to retirement that it does not matter. That is the catch about talent you have to treat it well or lose it. Yes the best are bulletproof. The results of this can already be seen as some of the best have left and the labs are no longer even close to the same level they once where. The management has learned the hard way the talent is not replaceable.
The workers are not the "problems", the workers where never the "problem". The workers are the lab, that management not so much. Get rid of the workers and you have only management and you have no lab. You have to be a fool not to think those outside the US have been watching this. There will be real consequences.
February 24, 2014 at 7:21 PM said... There are MUCH better ways of being satisfied and happy with your career. Most of them don't involve working for people you despise.
Nicely put. You can usually put up with high-level people you never interact with - after all, the Democrats survived Bush, and the Republicans will survive Obama. But when there is a systemic problem with management reaching down to your immediate supervisors and colleagues and making you miserable on a daily basis, it might be time to rethink why you work where you work.
Part of the negative reaction to the Bechtel management group, is that the LLC never took the time to build positive employee relations.
Most people are getting out, but excuse them if they don't sing high praise for a company that has never given them the time of day.
You obviously missed the little fact that the managing partner of LLNS, and the Chairman of the Board, and the President of LLNS, are UC people, not Bechtel.
Employee treatment is still the same.
Perhaps, but I guess it doesn't bother you that you are blaming the wrong people.
Bechtel has nothing to do with anything negative. They told me so.
I know no one owes anyone anything & we are all lucky to have jobs, but there are better ways of executing a cip.
...there are better ways of executing a cip.
February 26, 2014 at 7:10 PM
Yep - bullet through the brain.
"Yep - bullet through the brain.
February 26, 2014 at 9:07 PM"
Go for it.
Already done, CIP will not happen.
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