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Saturday, January 12, 2013

Furloughs?

FURLOUGHS? WCI AND COMPS rolled out thier furlough plans this week.
aws work week will be canceled and all employees will be on 5day 8hr schedule with furlough days on friday

Note: This is being contributed anonymously. Scooby has no way of confirming this.

42 comments:

Anonymous said...


I do mean to sound like a jerk but
this goes through that at LANL it will not have any effect on the amount of work that is done. On any
Friday at best there is 30% of the workforce and most put in about half a day. I always hated the 9/80 policy because it ended up being abused so badly. There other thing is that very few of the
people put in 9 hours on the regular work days either.
The lab starts to empty out 4pm.
Also good luck trying to get anything done on a Friday.

So in essence all Furloughs would is to pay for people to work the hours they work. Now I know some people work the full 9 hours a day and their Fridays (I am one of those) but lets be honest this is only a very small number. Also people say how great the 9/80 is so
they can deal with emergencies. All
I have to say to that is everyone else has those problems and that is what vacation, sick and family sick days are for.

I have a sad prediction that if Furloughs are actually done that
Thursday will be the new Friday.

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised that each PAD gets to make their own furlough schedule, and not a lab wide schedule.

Anonymous said...

Furloughs? Come on folks, let's support each other (LLNL and LANL) here. Where, when? Please anyone....

Anonymous said...

I am looking forward to every Friday off or every other.....I understand that many folks are living pay to pay and this would make things tough.

Try to remember that furloughs are to prevent lay-offs so the other option is not as good.

On a personal note I spent 2 hrs at the State disability office (for an upcoming surgery).
If you have any complaints about the Lab or Parney just go sit there for 2 hrs and you will never complain about your job again, ever...I promise.

Anonymous said...

January 12, 2013 10:18 AM

Besides mangling the English language, could you please provide some factual evidence for your statements like "On any
Friday at best there is 30% of the workforce and most put in about half a day"
or
Also good luck trying to get anything done on a Friday

I really object to moronic comments like yours. A lot of time I am on travel, working on holidays and not being compensated for this. And then a moron like you comes along and claims there is no work being done on a Friday. I have the suspicion you must be part of the managment team, which is on a 8-5 schedule.

And for crying out loud, would you please explain the meaning of :

All I have to say to that is everyone else has those problems and that is what vacation, sick and family sick days are for.

What problems are you referring to?
The sick days and family sick days come out of the same pool. So it seems to me that you don't even work at LANL.






Anonymous said...

Do you think furloughs will cause those nearing retirement to quit? It is my understanding that furloughs will lower the salary base that is used to calculate the pension. I wondered if this might cause senior lab members to quit.

Anonymous said...


"I really object to moronic comments like yours. A lot of time I am on travel, working on holidays and not being compensated for this. And then a moron like you comes along and claims there is no work being done on a Friday. I have the suspicion you must be part of the managment team, which is on a 8-5 schedule."

First of all I said that there are some people that do work the hours and then some. If you are one of those than great. However you have to be honest here that on any given Friday the lab is less than half full. All you have to do is count your coworkers in you group or ect. As for the 8-5 schedule how
is that the lab is mostly empty by 5:15pm, in fact the car lines starts at 4.0pm. Sure some people come in at 7AM but people are simply not working 9 hour days. Again just look at you group come in at 8pm and see how many people leave at 6pm. The fact is that there is a large fraction of people who put in 8 hour days and still get every other Friday off.
On top of that I would make a good bet there are people who take every Friday off. Try getting some paper work done on a Friday.

Again if your work your full hours than you too should be very angry at what you see.

I admit that I am only using anecdotal evidence which is not proof. I think it would be very valuable if some kind of measure where done on this. Maybe something like a few Friday walk-arounds where a head count is taken. You could couple this with a few Wed walk-arounds at 8:05AM and than at 8.15AM. Make sure the sample is large enough and then let the data decide.

Anonymous said...

On any day, M - F, if you are driving up the "hill" to Los Alamos, you will see a steady line of cars heading down to the Valley and SF, starting around 3:30 pm and lasting to around 6:00 pm. Assuming most of these people are supposedly working 9/80, there is obviously serious time-card fraud (which is a federal offense for federal contractors like LANL). In my experience, managers are clueless or just unwilling to enforce the rules. This has been going on since the 9/80 option was instituted, back in the late 90's.

Fact of human life: whatever rule is not measured or enforced, is violated. Such is our ethics as a society.

Anonymous said...

" This has been going on since the 9/80 option was instituted, back in the late 90's.

Fact of human life: whatever rule is not measured or enforced, is violated. Such is our ethics as a society.

January 12, 2013 6:39 PM"

The 9/80 has to go on the other hand furloughs would make it fair.
Although it will not be fair to the those the really do the 9/80 as it was intended. I am really surprised that the who 9/80 thing has not gotten LANL in trouble for the way I think it is abused.

Anonymous said...

At LLNL, I am on 9/80. I come in at 8 AM and leave at 6PM (5PM on Fidays).
Most people (on 9/80 or not) are gone by 5PM! Just open your eyes and see who is abusing 9/80.

Anonymous said...

This may be controversial, but uniformly applied furloughs are not the best thing for the Labs. A better way which addresses not only the short-term cuts but also the long-term health of the Labs is a combination of layoffs, targeted to low-performers, and some serious pruning of the management ranks.

With all the nastiness LANL has been through in the last 7 years, it's been the better performers who's been leaving. They are marketable and have options, you see. This resulted in a "loser-heavy" organization. The losers don't have other job offer and will hold on to their cushy jobs. They will never be voluntarily separated and can only be kicked out in targeted layoffs.

As for the management, that part is completely obvious. In the last ten years, the ratio of managers to productive people has skyrocketed, we've seen that graphs on this blog. Plus, the managers' salaries have gone through the roof. The director's compensation for instance has at least tripled. Is the present director really three times better than Sig Hecker?

Anonymous said...

...heard about the furloughs at the GS all hands....a question was raised if this will apply to the folks working on WFO accounts, and those on change of station...."good questions" was the reply...

Anonymous said...

The use of furloughs at the labs will have a big effect on older staff members who are in TCP1 and getting close to retirement. Their future pension payments will be cut back by a large margin if furloughs are implemented.

Perhaps that's part of upper management's plan? I fully suspect they will decide that *they* are soooo important that no cut back in hours will be required for upper management positions.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...

This may be controversial, but uniformly applied furloughs are not the best thing for the Labs. A better way which addresses not only the short-term cuts but also the long-term health of the Labs is a combination of layoffs, targeted to low-performers, and some serious pruning of the management ranks."

And just who will decide who is a
low-performer? Your opinion of a low-performer is just that an opinion. Many people do many different things at the labs, and they need a variety of skills and a variety of skill levels. Many of these so called high-performers who left that the labs may simply not have been team players or where more interested in advancing their own careers rather than sacrificing to serve the labs.

Anonymous said...

It is obvious to everyone. When I bring in a project, I have had over five managers overseeing a project (<1M) that they do not even understand because it was my idea. Cut middle management ? It seems obvious to everyone on this blog. Why does management refuse to do the right thing for the greater good ?

Anonymous said...

They must cut indirects. This is really the only way to success. What am I not getting here ?

Anonymous said...

"Why does management refuse to do the right thing for the greater good ?

January 13, 2013 at 11:33 PM"

You are a very naive person. If you where a manager you too would want to keep your high salary and security. Perhaps you did not play the game right and could not get into management. Besides what is for the greater good is a matter of perception. If the taxpayer sees the management is good than who says it is not? Maybe just maybe management is doing good and you are not the one willing to see this for greater good. Did you ever think about that. Welcome to the real world where everyone is out for themselves.

Anonymous said...

If the taxpayer sees the management is good than who says it is not?
Do you think the tax payer would be happy with LLNL and LANL lab managers ?

In what way ?

Anonymous said...

If you where a manager you too would want to keep your high salary and security.

Agreed, it's too much to expect an overpaid, incompetent manager to suddenly grow a conscience and "self-deport". But the people higher up, who are devising the furloughs, have the power to do it.

Perhaps you did not play the game right and could not get into management.

You mean, I wasn't a moron enough to fellate the moron above me to be promoted into the ranks of morons? Indeed.

What's interesting is that over the years this has led to long chains of managers servicing each other. Which is the real reason why the idea that ULMs could prune the lower management ranks won't ever fly here.

Anonymous said...

Is the plan to furlough labbies speculative rumor gone wild, or did a memo get circulated to the employees? If it is a rumor, then I have to say that you people at LLNL have way.too much free time on your hands and that the lab SHOULD consider furloughs.

Anonymous said...

If you CAN leave the lab, you SHOULD leave the lab. No point in staying on the klepocratic ship that is slowly sinking if you know that at some point down the line after all of your misery and suffering you will be made to pay the price. Secure employment at a better employer. It is aTRUE that 90% of other employers whether in the public or private sectors are BETTER than LLNS. Even Bechtel is a better employer than the Frankenstein called LLNS. Management structure before and after the transition - largely the same cast of malignant characters. I promise you. When you find employment at google or applied materials or chevron or wherever, your blood pressure will go down at least by 10 points. For the sake of your own health and well-being, find other employment and leave the lab behind you. It will be the best decision that you have ever made.

Anonymous said...

any given Friday the lab is less than half full...

This is, after all, the planned outcome of half of the staff on alternating 9/80 schedules, no?

I like 9/80s cause I can get lots of work done on Fridays getting ready for the following week, whereas before the alternate schedules, I needed to work nights and Saturdays to avoid the manager drama, coworker demands and administrative drama to focus and be really productive. This was still a compromise because by then I was quite tired and less creative or productive.

Quiet Fridays devote one workday per week for productive output.

Anonymous said...

Dear Scoob, can you please separate LLNL and LANL comments.
Which lab is proposing furloughs?
Are the issues over alternate work weeks are different for the two labs?

The confusion of content is endless, like listening to a party-line.

Suggest a discpline like under the title

LANL - "Disaster strikes again, rumors fly"
LLNL - "Furloughs underway"
BOTH LABS - "hemlines rising as spring approaches, hopes rise"

Thanks

Anonymous said...

I like the flexibility. If demand is high, I can combine the long quiet Friday and evening that I am supposed off, and Saturday to focus and complete a week or two's work normally trudged thru at the slow pace of normal interuptions. Sometimes I can even hide on Mondays by being unclear where I am, to add even more productive time, but jealous managers and administrative scolds egos suffer if they are avoided too long. The retribution is unpleasant but sometimes necessary to accomplish work.

In times were demands are manageable, I take the planned Friday and Saturday off, and may even steal back the occasional Monday.

The flexibility allow both higher productivity and a fairer relationship with my family, who after all, I am the sole support.

When Ed finds out about this, he will cancel 9/80. Oh? He already did? Yep, Ego is more important than productive work.

Anonymous said...

I learned, over time, to manage people the way I wanted to be managed. In times of high demand, effort and extra time. In even times, strive for excellence with flexibility and rewards. In times of personal loss, compassion, understanding, flexibility and exceptions. In times of error, forgiveness, learning, correction and moving on. In times of overbearing oversight, lip-service superficial compliance and exceptions. And always tell the insecure boss what she wants to hear.

As an example, when a subordinate was given a parking ticket, which was to come with another lecture from me, I give them and me a break, an exception and happily toss the notice in the trash, reporting back.
"Mission accomplished."

Anonymous said...

Furloughs = personal bankruptcy for employees

Anonymous said...

Personal bankruptcy for employees is driven by moral and ethical bankruptcy on the part of disreputable management. But Ped (Parney + Ed) has a good point with the furlough. You employees have too much time on your hands to be constantly gossiping in the hallway about the furlough. You people have nothing better to do anyways. Why should the taxpayer foot the bill for your goldbricking?

Anonymous said...

After the lay-off of 2008, many remaing employees had ther workload greatly increased. The insane government oversight of the last five years further increased workload. But take-home pay shrank. I agree with the person above that furloughs will cause personal bankruptcies.

Anonymous said...

Some of the impacts of "insane government oversight" are due to internal miscommunications or misunderstandings to policy coming out of Washington. For example, the great confusion regarding conference travel immediately following the aftermath of Tomas stepping down led to a great deal of confusion by many at the lab (possibly management, but likely unintentional) making incorrect inferences and interpretations regarding the NNSA directives.

But that is one counter example. Excessive oversight resulting from nungate and LANL radiological release etc etc has impacted how work gets done at LLNL. But it is a rational response involving needed oversight, and has the unfortunate consequence of increasing the cost of getting work done. That added cost goes into the decision for whether or not it is even worth it to continue that line of worth. We have to consider the possibility that at this time and environment, that there are better places to put tax-dollars to work. Just a possibility.

Anonymous said...

1:19 PM points out a costly response to the LANL Tc radiological accident. This is a case of the entire complex being punished once again for the failures at LANL. NNSA whips the many for the sins of the few.

Anonymous said...

Apparently some "programs" and the people that work for them are more important than others, I heard that NIF is considered mission critical and will not be furloughed.

Anonymous said...

Bruce Warner at the recent GS all-hands (where he discussed the furloughs) did say that certain programs would be exempt -- and he mentioned NIF as an example.

Once again, the rest of the lab takes the hit...to support the golden child NIF.

Anonymous said...

I don't give a hoot about Tomas' ability to generate gas, even at 10 bursts per second. The fact is, you people at LANL and Sandia gotta chase after EoS measurements that we don't need, all really a justification to keep unneeded weaponeers employed in the face of reduced stockpiles and test ban treaty galore. So while you losers blindly follow your masters' orders, the real science is getting done by the likes of us, who know that in the end our work is more important than yours, and our people are smarter than yours. You people only play the game, where as we write the rules. All we have to say is that EoS is not relevant, and poof! You are irrelevant. But you already know deep down, that ICF is the only real game in town. Even NNSA has yet to realize that.

Anonymous said...

Flash from LLNL: EoS is not relevant! I'm starting to understand why nif is is deep ----.

Anonymous said...

Hate to break up the NIF bashing and LLNL vs LANL stuff, but back to the original discussion of furloughs.

I heard one difficulty was how to manage the time keeping of the required changes. The LITE system would have to be altered. As an alternative, I have heard that simply cutting everyone's pay by 10% would accomplish the savings while still keeping people at the site. Technically it accomplishes the same thing but there are probably rules and regulations that prevent the cut in pay but non payment for a forced day(s) off is probably easier to defend. Personally, I'd rather have the furlough day off.

Anonymous said...

EoS is not relevant. It's not needed as accurately as the labs had stated over 20 years ago. That was all to justify funding to keep labbies employed. That is why the lab doesn't care that they are mediocre when it comes to the underlying science to EoS and shock and ramp compression. Same with materials strength. Unimportant. The fact that the other two labs run circles around LLNL in unimportant fields is irrelevant. The fact that their experimental results are suspect is irrelevant. This is LLNL's gift to you all: poof, you are all irrelevant. Make yourself more useful.

Anonymous said...

Please put all this NIF/EoS talk into a thread labeled "NIF/EoS".

This thread is about the *furlough* plan announced at a number of all-hands recently at LLNL and how they will impact us:

1) Take home pay
2) Pension YOS credit
3) Pension HAPC
4) ?????

That's what we're trying to discuss here.

Anonymous said...

Please put all this NIF/EoS talk into a thread labeled "NIF/EoS, NOT".

Anonymous said...

EoS is relevant to employment and therefore to furloughs. EoS and strength are the only things justifying NIF right now so you might want to care more about the state and progress of analytical capability development since the viability of continued funding depends on it. Since the lab will not slow down NIF, their failures will be paid for by non-NIF (read carefully: non-critical non-essential) programs. If NNSA has a good reason to squeeze NIF funding, the lab will kill other programs or predetermine them to fail to make up for the shortfall.

Many of you can see these impacts already at the lab. For example the slow dismantling of HEAF capabilities for instance. Loyal supporter of NIF and at the same time, a victim of policies to prop up NIF. Not saying its malicious or anything like that. It is just the reality you are facing. HEAF may be gone or shriveled to the point that it has to be integrated with other orphan programs in so many years. WFO opportunities defenestrated in the process.

Anonymous said...

One would think we'd have a LLNL All Hands soon---to update employees given March 1st is just over a month away and the Lab has been directed to strengthen its planning efforts in case of a budget cut. Stress impacts productivity (that equates to money lost and morale down), transparency and communication tends to be more helpful than ongoing silence.

Anonymous said...

EoS at NIF is an expensive boondoggle. If any additional EoS data were actually needed for weapon performance, that fact would have been trumpeted in weapons reviews for years. It is simply not the case that any further EoS data is essential for weapon performance or longevity. Nice to have for the purists, or those wanting to tweak the knobs on the modeling, yes. So what? Not worth a dime of taxpayer's money, especially if scientists in other more relevant fields to overall national security have to be laid off because of NIF funding. NIF need to undergo a new JASONS review of relevance to national security.

Anonymous said...

6:30AM to 3:00PM is also a Friday schedule too. If you believe people are abusing time at lanl then you couldn't be more wrong.

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