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Sunday, January 27, 2013

Salary information

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AnonymousDelete
Why is it possible to google the database of LBNL and LANL salaries from the good ol' UC days but not the LLNL salaries? They must've been public record just the same, right? Where are they hiding?

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           comment:
 
Why is it possible to google the database of LBNL and LANL salaries from the good ol' UC days but not the LLNL salaries? They must've been public record just the same, right? Where are they hiding?


comment:


Wrong. Private companies (LLNS, LANS) are not required to post such salaries, even though they are government contractors. Would you expect to find the salaries of Boeing employees on the web? In fact, the posting of salaries by UC was a UC decision, not a government requirement.

Comment:
 .
Read carefully, I said --back in the UC days--. They have clearly changed quite a bit in the past 5 years but it's nevertheless an extremely useful dataset for salary negotiations.

LANL salaries (as UC): http://www.upte.org/LosAlamos/salaries/salaries.html

LBNL salaries: http://archive.org/details/LBNLSalariesFY2006-2007

So why can I not find anything for LLNL (again, pre-2007)
January 26, 2013 at 1:02 PM
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Anonymouscomment:

Go to this website for those retired making over 100k from LLNL!
http://database.californiapensionreform.com/database.asp?vtsearchname=Kemp&vtsearchemploy=llnl&vtquery=1&vttable=uc
January 26, 2013 at 6:33 PM
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comment:.
That list is of those who took TCP2. Many are still double-dipping. The amount of combined salary plus pension boggles the mind.

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes absolutely, we should all just take whatever Bechtel says we're worth without complaining or asking any questions because the all knowing gods of the private sector never misprice anything and one should always enter any negotiation from a position of weakness and ignorance.
January 27, 2013 at 2:28 AM
Anonymous said...

“…one should always enter any negotiation from a position of weakness and ignorance.”

Or, seek employment elsewhere.
January 27, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Anonymous said...


"Anonymous Anonymous said...

Salary envy is a really ugly thing. So many reasons, so little reason. Try to grow up.

January 26, 2013 at 9:55 PM"

It is you that needs to grow up, we are in American and salary is the way we keep score. In some sense this has always been true but it is getting more intense now and will continue in the future as more and more technology kicks in.
Ask any young person now what is the most important thing in life
and they will say money. In the end he with the most money wins.
It is time to get with program or be run over. Become a manager or stay a worker. You have to ask yourself are you going to be the lion or the gazalle, there are only two choices now and if choose not to decide than gazelle for you it is. You can have your naive world view that "substance" matter, whatever "substance" is. The truth is that it is money that matter and always will. Good luck in your little fairy tale land.

Anonymous said...

So to you, money is the only important thing in life? How incredibly sad; what a meaningless, inconsequential life you must lead. Are you teaching this to your kids? (Hopefully you don't have any.) "...salary is the way we keep score." I submit that "keeping score" is for games. The fact that you are clueless about the concept of "substance" in your life says it all.

Anonymous said...

I see it from an entirely different perspective--most people do not get into science for the money. However, scientists do place a high value on things like transparency, fairness, and intellectual freedom. Those were the values upon which the laboratories were supposed to have been founded. Unfortunately, with the Bechtel transition, we are now employed by a company that offers nothing in the way of prestige, job security, or academic bona fides. And it is not surprising, giving their way of doing business, that they have destroyed their chance of attracting any real scientific talent going forward.

Anonymous said...

The TCP2 pension paid to the high paid double-dippers comes from the UC pension pot and has nothing to do with Bechtel. I would be upset if I was a UC employee paying 7% out of my paycheck to support people who already have a hefty paycheck. And the taxpayers will have to pay any shortfall in the future.

Anonymous said...

"The TCP2 pension paid to the high paid double-dippers comes from the UC pension pot and has nothing to do with Bechtel."

TCP2 comes from the paycheck of the employee and matching funds from LLNS. Monies are based on the LLNL money of today and have nothing to do UC, other than UC is making a lot more money under the LLNS contract than they made the ran the show themselves.

The double dippers retired from UC at the contract change and are drawing retirement from that system which is their earned right. Some may have froze their UC and retired after 2007 and begun double dipping at a later date.

I wish that I had been in the position to do the same.

Back to the top post. These are not necessarily a list of double dippers. It is a list of those making over 100K at the time of the transition. I know of a couple people on that list that retired at the transition and got out of Dodge. I know a number of people who are double dippers and are not on that list because they were not making 100k at that last salary listing open to the public.

And in the end, what does it matter? Bechtel won, UC did as well with a bigger paycheck and with the bonus of not having to manage benefits of LLNL employees past, present and future. Well maybe Joe Requa's suit will prevail and UC will be on the hook for some.

Who lost? - grab a mirror.

Anonymous said...

Those who took the TCP2 option draw their pensions from UC including those who are currently drawing hefty salaries. Of course some retired after the UC transition but I'm not talking about them. Only those who draw hefty pensions when they don't need it. The taxpayers either directly or indirectly are going to have to pay in the end to meet the shortfalls.

Anonymous said...

The thread needs to be juiced up by bringing Tonas into the conversation. One has to wonder whether or not he is still an appendage of the crony system of kleptocracy or whether he has been cast aside. Either way, his salary and pension is not at all a reflection of his actual positive contributions to LLNS or NNSA. But it would be an even worse injustice if he were to try to extract more through a subcontract with LLNS or a lawsuit against LLNS. That is the kind of thing that would constitute double dipping. Maybe even triple dipping.

Anonymous said...

Its just deferred compensation. Employee and employer decided to give employee less currently and to put some away for retirement. Works pretty well as long as employer puts enough away and it is managed properly. It is called a defined benefit pension plan and generally, for the same funds deferred, works better for more employees than a defined contribution program, where a untrained or unlucky employee can make mistakes significantly reducing the effective payout.

Firms ought to consider this. It is a bright new retirement idea.

Anonymous said...

I have the last 5-10 years printouts, used to cost $1 in the benefits office lobby. Now very different, too long has passed.

Other very simple means available. The pay of talented grows more rapidly, the pay of the average grows at about 50% of the rate of the average pay increase and the pay of the bottom 20% is essentially frozen.

Except in the past 2 years where cranky Steve, in his noble fashion, imposed at 2 year freeze, besting Madhatter Hazel by a year. Didn't hurt the labs as much as the Bozo' Bodmans compensation reductions, but the three combined did significantly reduce compensation,probably 20%.

Employees are less incented and less empowered. And no one in DC can figure out why (because they don't want to know the answer).

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, and the matrix managers are there to tell you its ok.

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering if this whole thread sets a benchmark for useless discussions on this blog. I think it does...


Nah, doesn't hold a candle to the Nanos-baiter, Knapp-hater, EOS-debater, Obamanator, Quality Troll, John Galt, or best tits threads of new and old.

Best tits?

Anonymous said...

EoS is a useless discussion only to labbies who can't tell the difference between good and bad science. You should be questioning why your lab's management puts the worst possible choice of people into technical leadership positions particularly related to NIF programs. Theorists running experimental programs, people who can't tell the difference between stress and pressure or an isentrope from a Hugoniot. People who are incapable of analyzing streak camera images and getting EoS data points in regimes previously unmeasured by other labs. All you well-meaning and diligent labbies are going to get screwed over because of the "yes I can do it!" Attitude of people who are clearly going to fail. An indicator of failure includes bigger and bigger brainstorming group meetings or internal committees. You people convince yourselves that if a working group that large cant fix things, that it can't be fixed when in reality you are just frontloading failure with group think, blind-leading-the-blind mental masturbation, and divide-and-conquer-thy-self nonsense. Talk about central planning for failure a la the old Soviet model. The 25% of you at the lab who have a clue are getting screwed by the 75% who don't and who run the programs. Smart people should just leave. Things are better at Google and they know to keep morons and ineffective people out of technical leadership positions unlike at the lab.

Anonymous said...

Hey someone forgot to include the Tomas-stalker, the Ed false rumor Mongerers, and the Ped-ophiles (Ped = Parney + Ed) the posters who claim that Parney is just the puppet and chew toy of Ed who actually runs the lab.

Anonymous said...

The very BEST poster in my opinion is the NIF "explore the realm" "ship is built and ready to sail" poster who also kept inserting references to flatulence to defend against naysayers. The most memorable for me was the timing of parney's memo regarding this blog, when addressing false rumors regarding Ed. Parney suggested that employees can see for the selves the silly thing that bloggers say, and right about that time it was the NIF proponents going on and on about flatulence and NIF being a ship ready to sail, and all if that very entertaining propaganda. Poor timing on the part of Parney also.

Anonymous said...

Hey you can see a photo of cap'n crunch at the helm of the HMS NIF Scienitician on S&T review. The thing I can't figure out is how the last fifteen years of EoS science differs from what they are proposing moving forward. I.e., the ship which is at full mast but still sitting on dry dock and still full of holes in the hull.

Anonymous said...

NIF should become a corporation so that it can sue the likes of you for defamation and hurt feelings. Corporations have rights you know. You bitter NIF haters are going to get what's coming to you. You people need to mind your own business. This is a project for winners, and nobody tells the lab how to spend its own money. Go back to your cubicle in Forrestal you stupid pathetic losers.

Anonymous said...

Give the Eos loolapolooza a rest. No one cares, nor understands. Too stupid/lucky to be you!

Anonymous said...

Give the Eos loolapolooza a rest. No one cares, nor understands.

January 29, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Plenty of people understand and have expressed their opinions here. The fact is that no one who really understands really cares since the EoS argument is irrelevant and inconsequential to anyone who doesn't have a personal stake in NIF's future (good or bad). Likewise people who don't understand might care for bogus reasons, but usually don't. All in all, it is a total waste of time on this blog.

Anonymous said...

Too bad that you cannot see how the pieces of the puzzle fit together. Your fate in the long run is influenced by how The EoS team performs or underperforms regardless of you ambivalence to NIF. EoS and Strength are a big part of the lab. It would be helpful for employees to familiarize themselves with the history and people regarding EoS. A killing blow to NIF will put an end to the lab as you know it and you can say goodbye to your job.

Anonymous said...

Your fate in the long run is influenced by how The EoS team performs or underperforms regardless of you ambivalence to NIF.....A killing blow to NIF will put an end to the lab as you know it and you can say goodbye to your job.

January 30, 2013 at 3:26 AM

The point being that no one cares about LLNL (or LANL, for that matter), statistically speaking.

Anonymous said...

A "sanitized" list of lab executive salaries was published in the Congressional Record about 3 years ago. It was a requirement that all entities that took Stimulus Bill money had to do this.

Of course, I'm sure those executive lab salaries are much, much bigger today!

Anonymous said...


EoS is the key issue in arrangements and inverse networks, the values where coded such that usable input could be sorted for acute indeterminates. Of course this was ignored by way of proxy, but than again what can you expect form this form of action. Keep aware of these state of affairs, since the lab has to be nonplussed but effective in the course of actions when dealing with issues of this sort.

Anonymous said...

If people care about their employment at the lab, then they care about the trajectory of the lab as their employment may be affected. Not sure what you mean when you say people don't care about the lab statistically speaking. Isn't this a blog about LLNL or did SNL or PNNL take over? People who don't care would not be reading or posting here.

Anonymous said...

Discussions about furloughs and discussions about EoS and Strength go hand and hand. The golden children at the helm of the EoS and Strength work are a protected class not subject to furloughs or other policies that impact compensation or employment. Bringing this up only to inform the vast remainder of non-golden lab employees that the EoS and Strength teams are a joke compared to the actual leaders in those respective fields.

If you are late career and close to retirement, none of this should matter to you. If you are early or mid career however, this affects you directly. The longer you linger in the kleptocracy and the older you get, the more difficult it will be for you to change careers when the lab finally cashes your chip in as a non-golden- child, and you are subject to greater financial hardships as a result.

If you are part of the protected class of golden children? Then you are set for life, and no amount of screw ups will get you cast out of the circle. None of this applies to those at the core of EoS and Strength programs at the lab. Blessed are the golden children and the various "saviors" who have been pre-determined to be be victorious in saving the lab regardless of how and when they fail in that endeavor.

Anonymous said...

'EoS is the key issue in arrangements and inverse networks,...dealing with issues of this sort.'

200 MORE words nobody cares about. EoS must mean, Eat our inScrutable posts.

Interdeterminal, proxy, nonplussed...

IS THIS A BLOG OR SCRABBLE?

Did you read elsewhere Parney is thinking of eliminating bonses, reducing wages and laying folks off?

Or that Chuck "Suddenly old" Hagel may be our customer?

These are items we care about, not some damn incomprehesible cat fight.

Anonymous said...

You will get to pay for their ineptitude...

Fine, I pay it. What else is new?
I've been suffering from management and senior scientist errors for my whole career here.

SNAFU.

Anonymous said...

Discussions about furloughs and discussions about EoS and Strength go hand and hand.. the kleptocracy and ... non-golden- child, and you are subject to greater fi... protected class of golden children? T..EoS and Strength programs at the lab. Blessed ..."saviors" who have been pre-determined to be be victorious...

Now I GET IT. EoS is a med and you're writing from Vacaville. Is that you Theodore Kazinski? Do you have another hammer?

Anonymous said...

Some of you people don't pay any attention to your lab's capability portfolio. I swear to god, mgmt is right to furlough or lay off you people.

Anonymous said...

Pay no attention to the lab cattle. And there is no point in trying to teach them how to escape the farm. Too complex and long term to bother with. Some cattle cannot avoid their fateful meeting with the meat grinder. All they care about are their day to day issues like food, water and crap.

Anonymous said...

Some cattle cannot avoid their fateful meeting with the meat grinder. All they care about are their day to day issues like food, water and crap.

January 31, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Hear, hear. Priceless!

Anonymous said...

In the private sector, if you knew that your company's products and capabilities were inferior to the competitors' then you know to be atleast thinking about your logical next move out whether triggered by layoffs, restructuring or other changes.

Anonymous said...

Lab cattle think in terms of concerns for being in the survivor pool "above the line" rather than longer term career development. Why should lab cattle A make a sacrifice by volunteering to leave for another job, just so that ungrateful lab cattle B C and D can benefit with relief from layoff risk? Well only lab cattle think in those terms. The meat grinder is definitely their fate. The longer you wait and the older you get the harder it will be to make that escape when it's your turn to bu below the line.

Anonymous said...

However, good ranchers know that old beefs are to tough for the grinder, so they put them out to pasture to service the cows.

Anonymous said...

Old beef is good for low grade dog food. Atleast if they cross the finish line before the glue factory comes a callin, old cattle will be safe and, as mentioned, be allowed to be put out to pasture and spend the rest of their days screwing fine young heifers. Can't say the same outlook applies to young and mid career cattle, however.

Anonymous said...

It's hard for most labbies to see this "bigger picture" involving specific individuals, management, events, and interactions with sponsors, much of which occurs on the back channel which most lab employees cannot see and are unaware of.

Don't be too hard on them. Ignorance is bliss for most and that is the most you can expect. Only those close to the action understand fully what you are trying to say when bringing up EoS, strength, capability portfolio, the lab paranoia against NNSA, LLNL insults against Don Cook, etc.

The sad thing for lab management is that the sponsor and key people at the other lab are quite aware of these issues. Airing out the lab's dirty laundry like this hurts the lab management. And it's amazing that, despite being in no position to make any demands or dictate how NNSA meets it's mission objectives, the lab still tries to push everyone else around. If Foster is still behind all of this sponsor badmouthing and playing games, he should be ashamed of himself.

Anonymous said...

January 31, 2013 at 8:27 PM wrote:

Now I GET IT. EoS is a med and you're writing from Vacaville. Is that you Theodore Kazinski? Do you have another hammer?

You are confusing (and misspelling) Ted Kaczynski with Ted Streleski.

Anonymous said...

January 30, 2013 at 8:31 AM

You are correct by saying no one cares about LLNL or LANL. Since the transition from UC to LLNS and LANS most of the people who were motivated and took pridee realized they are not looked upon in the same manner anymore. They are now just numbers on a computer print-out that can be terminated for nay reason without cause. There is virtually no incentive to strive to be better when all they'll do is walk into your office one day with an armed guard, tell you to step back away from your computer, leave all your personal items where they are, they'll pack tem and ship them to your home, march you to HR and the gate and you're gone. It's just life at LLNL and LANL now days, so you're right. WFC. It's just like the private sector but worse.

Anonymous said...

When you say no one cares about LLNL/ LANL, do you mean that they don't care to bother knowing about events at the labs that could impact their career? Or do you mean that they don't feel they have any stake in the lab and have mixed or negative feelings against management?

Anonymous said...

February 4, 2013 at 12:17 AM:

Third choice: LLNL/LANL are completely irrelevant to most people. This blog is a "tempest in a teapot."

Anonymous said...

Then why do you come here to a blog dedicated to LLNL issues? You are posting in the wrong place. Or maybe you are a lab functionary trying to stop conversation relevant to employees like the broader prospects for the lab's capability portfolio and what the workforce will look like in three years. Sorry of Laser EoS makes you uncomfortable or maybe you really don't care (being close to or beyond retirement) but don't speak for others for whom this IS relevant.

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure it's some impotent mid level manager who was promoting propaganda In the past but is now resigned to trying to discredit many of the topics that "hit a nerve" with lab management and the cadre of golden children. The truth is supposed to set you free but only if you don't keep fighting against it. I dare management to prove us naysayers wrong and turn it into a world class organization that is a model of transparency and accountability to the taxpayers. The employees, the surrounding community, and the taxpayers deserve this much. The lab can be so much more than just a predictable model following past fiascos.

Anonymous said...

I dare management to prove us naysayers wrong and turn it into a world class organization that is a model of transparency and accountability to the taxpayers.

February 4, 2013 at 11:20 AM

You "dare"??? Spoken like a true third-grader. A little naive about the world, huh?

Anonymous said...

We know they can't hack it in the c-suite at a Fortune 500 corporation. The likes of lab management should be double dog dared. We can listen to them grovel long about how immature the dares are rather than bother even demonstrating management acumen. Oh wait, that was the previous poster! Talk about moron management mouthpieces actually read the blog? What a bunch of losers.

Anonymous said...

Management cannot be open and transparent because it would reveal things like retaliation against people like Dr Bill Nellis. Dare them to shoot themselves in the foot by being a better organization. Many of the management are wretched human beings. These are not decent people. Some are pathological liars when it comes to dealing with their customer NNSA. You get a significant improvement in management and the quality of governance by eradicating the scourge that infests middle and upper management. The a-hole poster responding to the dare is correct. It is naive to think there is any hope for the lab.

Anonymous said...

"Many of the management are wretched human beings. These are not decent people."

Sad, but very true. It's become worse of late, too.

Anonymous said...

We can listen to them grovel long about how immature the dares are rather than bother even demonstrating management acumen. Oh wait, that was the previous poster! Talk about moron management mouthpieces actually read the blog? What a bunch of losers.

February 5, 2013 at 1:00 AM

So, anyone who disagrees with you or thinks you're being immature must be a manager? I am February 4, 2013 at 7:24 PM; not a manager (not even an employee). I just detest naivete, immaturity, and ignorance worn as merit badges. Especially among so-called professionals. Sheesh, if it weren't for the conspiracy theorists and the whiners, this blog might actually be interesting and helpful. If you didn't think you were the pieces of crap your managers think you are, you'd all be leaving. Grow a spine.

Anonymous said...

That's why you were referred to as a mgmt mouthpiece. You must be former low level manager failure. Was it Hal that gave you the screw over? Good for Hal. He did good.

Anonymous said...

You must be Tomas. LOL. Figures. If not you got the same profile, loser.

Anonymous said...

February 5, 2013 at 12:49 PM either has no idea wtf he is talking about (not a current or former employee) or he is a former employee washout who knows quite a bit about the lab from experience. I say he is a washout.

Anonymous said...

What a loser (not February 5, 2013 at 12:49 PM, all you other guys).

Want some cheese with that whine?

Anonymous said...

It occurs to me that the individual who "does not care about LLNL/LLNS" seems to actually care because he is reading and posting on this blog that happens to be dedicated to topics about the lab.

It does appear like this is indeed a lab management mouthpiece, possibly a former employee. The pathetic propaganda coming out of these mouthpieces are in fact very amusing to read. It takes a small bit of work to attach names and identities to these anonymous posts. I suspect that information is already in the hands of a few posters.

Anonymous said...

It takes a small bit of work to attach names and identities to these anonymous posts. I suspect that information is already in the hands of a few posters.

February 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM

So reasoned arguments are replaced by petty threats? What a joke. Typical of people out of ideas. Who the hell uses the term "mouthpiece" anyway?

Anonymous said...

That's the best you can say for a come back? I suppose years of continuous stress from the lab must have really had an impact on your cognitive functions. You have my pity more than anything. The lab is full of very bad people. You were probably one of them. The price you pay for selling your soul to the devil.

Anonymous said...

There was never any big problem the first "dare" statement as it parallels many statements made by famous corporate executives in cases where they have successfully made positive changes to organizational behavior and structure. So going off with flippant and ignorant troll responses like you did against the "dare" will only result in others doing the exact same back to you essentially parodying or amplifying your ignorance. Also you have the habit of flying off the handle against statements in non-troll posts. You have the choice of responding in a civil non-troll way or you can go off like you have done on numerous occasions. There are consequences for that.

Anonymous said...

That's the best you can say for a come back?

February 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM

Sorry to disappoint you, but this pathetic self-pity fest is no longer worth my time. Luckily, this thread will soon disappear off the bottom of the page.

Anonymous said...

I like seeing the mad troller get bashed. Especially since I know who he is. Big LOLs for me

Anonymous said...

It's "troll" not "troller" you twit.

Anonymous said...

Stop provoking the troller. The poor guy has worse things to worry about in his life. Let him take us random shots, he has nothing meaningful to contribute anyways.

Anonymous said...

Just talk about Laser EoS and strength to royally piss him off. He has no mental capacity to comprehend how they impact employment at the lab. So he gets really mad instead. I am guessing that he has untreated bipolar disorder. Maybe even adult ADHD.

Anonymous said...

Just talk about Laser EoS and strength to royally piss him off.

February 8, 2013 at 2:14 AM

Haven't you noticed that it pisses everyone off who doesn't depend on it for a paycheck?

Anonymous said...

It's a lab issue, and a big one at that. Their lab paycheck depends indirectly and over the longer term on it. A bit of meds or a lobotomy is sure to turn some of the frowns upside-down.

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