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Thursday, September 17, 2015

U.S. Drops Charges That Professor Shared Technology With China -part 2

U.S. Drops Charges That Professor Shared Technology With China -part 2

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/us/politics/us-drops-charges-that-professor-shared-technology-with-china.html?_r=0

53 comments:

Anonymous said...

Having contributed to the US losing two wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) as well as ignoring the rise of ISIS, the intelligence community (IC) is turning its attention towards counterintellligence. That means they are going after US citizens or legal residents. Easy targets compared to fighting an actual enemy. Cyber security is another buzzword and opportunity to maintain their funding. Expect to see a lot more of this enemy within BS in the coming years. I also expect the IC to get more involved in domestic law enforcement.

Anonymous said...

It too bad for the FBI that this guy didn't work at LLNL. At LLNL his coworkers could be guaranteed to testify against him, under threat of losing their clearances. Maybe the FBI should go after some lab employees with trumped up charges.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the FBI should have consulted Bill Cleveland on this. He did a good job of running Katrina Leung before he got caught sleeping with her (and had to resign his job as head of LLNL security).

Anonymous said...

Another botched witch hunt against an innocent Chinese American, after similar cases against Wenho Lee, Bo Jiang (Still remember the NASA contractor?), Sherry Chen, .... The list goes on and on. When will this madness stop!? I fully support FBI doing their job. But prosecutions like this must be carried out with due diligence and extreme cares.

Frequent wrongful FBI acts are already damaging their reputation (if any left), wasting tax dollars, ruining innocent people's lives, and causing distrust in Chinese American community and beyond.

FBI should apology formally to all wrongfully accused Chinese Americans and pay for their damages.

Anonymous said...

Wen Ho Lee was not "an innocent Chinese American." The case against him was dropped for reasons other than lack of evidence of wrongdoing. The evidence of his surreptitiously moving SRD design data off the classified system to the unclassified side was solid and overwhelming. Plus, he is Taiwanese, not Chinese.

And before you come back with "innocent until proven guilty" allow me to point out that it is "PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty."

Anonymous said...

September 19, 2015 at 3:19 PM

Ok since when Wen Ho Lee was never proven gullibility we should all presume he is innocent. There is plenty of controversy around the case so it is safe to say that you have no real idea what happened but there was never any "spy" scandal. He was never charged as a spy but with 59 counts of mishandling information which he plead guilty to only one. The presiding judge issued Lee an apology on behalf of the Government. The evidence now in the public dhows that with almost certainly any classified information leaked to China did not come from Los Alamos. Also the idea that they could not press further because more information would be made public does not hold water since there as been many other cases with sensitive information that where the suspects where brought to trial and charged. Looking back at what a disaster the case was it seems more like this was just utter politically motivated incompetence. You can cite your reports but there are plenty of other versions out there as well. The reality is that you have no idea so we must go with the presumption.

A Convenient Spy: Wen Ho Lee and the Politics of Nuclear Espionage Paperback – August 3, 2007
by Dan Stober (Author), Ian Hoffman (Author)

My Country Versus Me: The First-Hand Account by the Los Alamos Scientist Who Was Falsely Accused of Being a Spy Hardcover – January 15, 2002
by Wen Ho Lee (Author), Helen Zia (Collaborator)

http://www.e-ir.info/2013/08/17/the-united-states-vs-wen-ho-lee-an-error-of-cooperation-prioritization-and-imagination/

Anonymous said...

The presiding judge issued Lee an apology on behalf of the Government.
September 19, 2015 at 6:12 PM

Absolutely false, please check your information before spreading nonsense. It is absolutely clear to anyone who knows anything about the Wen Ho Lee case that he willfully violated many security rules and deserved what he got, though it is not clear that he actually spied for China. He probably did, but that is not a conviction in court. If there is more definitive evidence out there, it is closely guarded and probably classified.

Anonymous said...

In June 2006, Lee received $1.6 million from the federal government and five media organizations as part of a settlement of a civil suit he had filed against them for leaking his name to the press before any formal charges had been filed against him. Federal judge James A. Parker eventually apologized to Lee for denying him bail and putting him in solitary confinement, and excoriated the government for misconduct and misrepresentations to the court.

Anonymous said...

>"Absolutely false, please check your information before spreading nonsense. It is >absolutely clear to anyone who knows anything about the Wen Ho Lee case that he >willfully violated many security rules and deserved what he got, though it is not >clear that he actually spied for China. He probably did, but that is not a >conviction in court. If there is more definitive evidence out there, it is closely >guarded and probably classified."

Sir you are an idiot, it is
absolutely true that the judge did in fact apologized and said that the government even was misleading. http://articles.latimes.com/2000/sep/14/news/mn-20908
Please check your "facts" next time before before you get your ass handed to you time and time again on the blog.

Wen Ho Lee Freed; Judge Scolds U.S. Over Case Tactics
Security: Scientist says he's 'going fishing' after pleading guilty to one count. Judge Parker offers apologies, saying federal prosecutors 'have embarrassed this entire nation.'

But the court hearing was dominated by U.S. District Judge James A. Parker's stunning summation, an emotion-charged monologue in which he repeatedly apologized to Lee and bitterly condemned government prosecutorial tactics.

Speaking in somber tones to a packed and hushed courtroom, Parker excoriated what he called the "top decision-makers in the executive branch." He particularly criticized the White House, U.S. Atty. Gen. Janet Reno, Energy Secretary Bill Richardson and the FBI for their roles in bringing the case.

"They have embarrassed this entire nation and each of us who is a citizen of it," Parker said.
Prosecutors sat stone-faced through much of Parker's harsh scolding. The FBI's chief investigator, Robert Messemer, whose recantation last month of his own testimony sharply undermined the prosecution's case, scowled. Messemer, a beefy man with slicked-back hair, avoided reporters after the hearing.

An FBI source in Washington said that, while Messemer's conduct in the case will be routinely reviewed, the agency seems to believe that his testimony "wasn't that inaccurate" and it is doubtful he will be disciplined.

But Parker, who took over as chief federal judge in New Mexico this month, repeatedly said that the government "misled" him by exaggerating evidence against Lee in December when prosecutors insisted that the Taiwan-born scientist should be denied bail and held incommunicado in jail until his trial.

Anonymous said...

Wen Ho, you need to learn to speak and write English, your numerous errors give you away.

Anonymous said...

There is plenty of controversy around the case so it is safe to say that you have no real idea what happened...The reality is that you have no idea so we must go with the presumption...

September 19, 2015 at 6:12 PM

Sorry, you are the one with "no idea." You might want to consider that there were many committees and meetings within DOE and LANL, also including Intel, DOJ and FBI, where scientists and other people who participated in the forensic investigations and also the intel and counter-intel and security/classification reviews were given access to all the available data and conclusions, after being "read in" and signing non-disclosure agreements as usual. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of people who know what really happened and have sworn not to reveal what they know. If you have ever worked on a "black" program you know what I mean. Please don't fall prey to the "if it wasn't in the NY Times, it never happened" trap. If you doubt these meeting and committees ever happened, then say so, but if you realize that they did, then admit you might know much less than some other people know.

Anonymous said...

September 19, 2015 at 10:22 PM

If they had a case they would have pressed for prosecution, it is as simple as that.
And yes you have no idea what you are talking about. Of course the meetings and
committees happened but in the end no hard evidence was found because if it was
Wen Ho Lee would have been charged and found guilty of espionage. The argument thrown out by people on the blog is that the they could no because sensitive information would come out, but how is it that plenty of other people have been charged and found guilty of spying than, the same argument would have applied.

Anonymous said...

September 20, 2015 at 8:30 AM

Some of us know first-hand what happened during the investigation and the trial. Others do not. The latter will continue to believe what they wish. Anyone who has had a clearance knows the frustration of not being able to respond directly or completely when someone says something false, misleading, or stupid about a classified subject.

In answer to your question, in many cases you refer to, some NSI information involved could be easily declassified for purposes of litigation and conviction, without undue risk to national security. In the WHL case, it was decided not to declassify significant SRD weapon design information.

Anonymous said...


"Some of us know first-hand what happened during the investigation and the trial. Others do not. "

You are one who does know what happened fist hand, you have no credibility, and no one cares what you think. Why should anyone believe a single word of what you have to say? Again if they had a case than they would have pursued it just like every other espionage case but they did not end of story You have no idea what you are talking about and you may just have some kind of weird agenda. Whatever you agenda is is between you and your therapist andyou do not need to make it public. The judgement on the Wen Ho Lee case has already been made public as the judge involved in the case has stated as seen in the above posts, everything else is innuendo, hearsay, or rumor mongering of those who may or may not have an agenda. I would guess and those that in your case you have a very personal and ugly agenda that you will not or cannot let go of after 15 years, that of course is just innuendo but you have have to be consistent.

Anonymous said...

" In the WHL case, it was decided not to declassify significant SRD weapon design information.

September 20, 2015 at 2:29 PM"

So according to your agreement they would never charge anyone involved with classified information yet there are countless cases that have? Your explanation does not pass the smell test. Sorry but if you knew anything about about this than you would know that is not how it works.

Anonymous said...

^^ This guy is crazy. Maybe he is Wen Ho, feeling pangs of guilt years later.

Anonymous said...

So according to your agreement they would never charge anyone involved with classified information yet there are countless cases that have? Your explanation does not pass the smell test. Sorry but if you knew anything about about this than you would know that is not how it works.

September 20, 2015 at 10:19 PM

If you don't know the difference between NSI and RD, including declassification policies for each, you have little basis for understanding the argument. There is a reason an L clearance gets you access to SNSI information, but you need a Q to get access to SRD.

Since you also don't seem to know the difference between an agreement and an argument, your confusion isn't surprising.

Anonymous said...

Lee was not proved to spy for anyone... in fact the prosecution kept changing who they suspected he spied for, and could not come up with any credible answer. It was country "to be supplied later". Also missing from all this name calling is that John Richter, the top primary designer at LANL for many years, testifed for Lee; and said that the content of the tapes did not endanger the country, and was of little use. In this he agreed with Harold Agnew, the former Director of LANL.
We used to joke at LANL that giving the codes to the Chinese would set them back 20 years. The codes were very old, some dating back to the 60s, and not very good at prediction. As Brad indicates, and Agnew, the trick was knowing how to get something useful out of the bad answers. This was not in the codes. Lee got screwed. There was no way he belonged in solitary confinement. He had not been tried or convicted of anything, and he was not a flight risk. It was simply turning the screws on him, and the prosecution was led by Pete Domeinici's son-in-law, who is a real bastard.
Lee was screwed because he was Chinese, and the Cox Committee needed a Chinese spy. The W-88 drawing that was a central issue was of the warhead, not the physics package, so it is unlikely that it came from LANL, which does not make warheads, but physics packages.
Where UC comes in, and LANL management, is that they fired Lee in violation of his rights to due process before termination. They had no regard for UCs own policies. This should serve as warning to all UC employees; they have no respect for your rights or their own damned policies.
Lee got screwed, because he was Chinese. Others at LANL have had worse security infractions, including actual compromise of information and gotten wrist slaps. The system is totally corrupt.
# posted by Anonymous Anonymous : 9/26/2005 09:43:00 PM

Anonymous said...

It is pathetic to keep repeating that there was loads of evidence but that the FBI 'blew' it. Excuse me, but the problem was that they could not find any real evidence. Sorry but adamant assertions don't count. Did FBI need to just wait a while longer? They had only been watching him for years and years. If there was hard evidence Lee would have been convicted. Instead he received an apology from the judge and even Richardson is now changing his tune (depending on the day of week).

Other commenters say very calmly that government would have had conviction except they could not jeopardize the classified information required as evidence. Sorry but I cannot buy this. If that was true they could have shown it to the judge and if they had, he never would have said what he did.

It is much more likely that WHL was an innocent victim. He paid a heavy price for someone else's mistake or devious plan. It is fairly obvious that there are elements in our society for whom the WORST thing would be the outbreak of peace and genuine cooperation. Do you think these elements don't know where there interests are ... or that they are too timid to act on them?

# posted by Anonymous rick sterling : 9/26/2005 09:49:00 PM

Anonymous said...

September 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM

This does not pass the smell or legal test. Sorry, again if they had a case they would
have gone for it and their is no doubt about that. Again why is is that other people have been charged even when classified information is in play? You do not know what you are talking about and have some kind of personal agenda that you need to deal with.

Anonymous said...

September 21, 2015 at 8:45 PM
September 21, 2015 at 8:48 PM
September 21, 2015 at 8:52 PM

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. You have no first-hand information, just your opinions. So be it. And BTW, September 21, 2015 at 8:45 PM, "John Richter, the top primary designer at LANL for many years" was uniformly considered a slightly insane wierdo. I remember standing with him under a shelter in the rain waiting to go the the cafeteria for lunch, and hearing him tell profane jokes in the hearing of several female employees and laughing that they were his "captive audience until the rain stopped." He was not a stable character. So much for his character witness for WHL. He was not, purposefully, read into the WHL investigation.

Anonymous said...

Chinese born citizens should not have Q clearances, period. Problem solved.

Anonymous said...

September 21, 2015 at 10:00 PM

How about Harold Agnew?

Anonymous said...

Chinese born citizens should not have Q clearances, period. Problem solved.

September 21, 2015 at 10:59 PM

If you are referring to WHL, he is Taiwanese, not Chinese.

Anonymous said...

If you are referring to WHL, he is Taiwanese, not Chinese.

September 22, 2015 at 9:31 AM

I thought he was an American.

Anonymous said...

I thought he was an American.

September 22, 2015 at 7:30 PM

Yes, you fool. Taiwanese-American. Happy now, idiot?

Anonymous said...

September 22, 2015 at 8:45 PM

Or maybe American-Taiwanese?
Most likely he is American, since it is very hard to get a Q as a dual citizen.
I find it telling that all this harping on WHL and any other possible chinese spy, while history has shown that most of our big time spies were of the "good" American
born here type.

Anonymous said...

While John Richter was "weird" and "insane", that is an absolute job requirement for folks working in X-division (and T-division) at LANL. Does anyone remember Sterling Colgate? He used to sun bathe in his front yard, yeah in the nude.

Anonymous said...

How about Harold Agnew?

September 22, 2015 at 7:42 AM

He came from the cowboy era, so we can discredit him. Look I have an excuse for everything.

Anonymous said...

"Yes, you fool. Taiwanese-American. Happy now, idiot?

September 22, 2015 at 8:45 PM"

So are you classified as Stupid-American?

Anonymous said...

Look around Los Alamos and you will find that the racist, morally corrupt goons who followed lab executive orders to attack Wen Ho Lee with innuendoes and outright lies were all well compensated and highly promoted after this sad event. That tells you a lot about the integrity of many of the people in the management chain at LANL. These are not nice people.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember Sterling Colgate? He used to sun bathe in his front yard, yeah in the nude.

September 23, 2015 at 4:01 AM

With that kind of money, he was merely "eccentric."

Anonymous said...

...racist, morally corrupt goons who followed lab executive orders to attack Wen Ho Lee with innuendoes and outright lies...

September 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM

You mean like the US Attorney and the FBI?

Anonymous said...

I can't believe anyone here is defending Wen Ho Lee, unless it happens to be Wen Ho Lee himself doing the posting. He got away with it, no major charges, congratulations to him. That doesn't mean he was innocent, and he was very obviously a poster child for the LANL screw-the-rules cowboy stereotype.

Anonymous said...

"That doesn't mean he was innocent, and he was very obviously a poster child for the LANL screw-the-rules cowboy stereotype."

And it does not mean he is guilty either. As already shown there was never
LANL cowboy stereotype. The statistics show this which you know full well. Your continual ranting is not really about LANL or Wen Ho Lee, it is about you and your personal issues. You seem very bitter and angry but no amount of raging at LANL or scientists or people who went to college will ever change things for you for they are are not to blame for your failures. Only you are to blame, deal with it and move on.

Anonymous said...

Funny how the adjectives "bitter" and "angry" turn up so often here to refer to people whose comments the poster does not agree with. Especially when the poster has no real facts to fall back on. The words are used twice each in the above post, which shows the trend. I don't understand how anyone can accurately diagnose someone else as "bitter" (I don't even really know what the word means as applied to a person), but I wonder what someone who continually uses those terms to refer to people he doesn't know and doesn't agree with can be trying to achieve.

Anonymous said...

It's called psychological projection, where someone with unresolved issues projects them onto other people as a way of externalizing them and examining them, usually subconsciously. Freud referred to it as Projektion. It's very common among people with social issues, which unfortunately includes many scientists who work at the labs. Most likely 8:47 too.

Anonymous said...

"It's very common among people with social issues, which unfortunately includes many scientists who work at the labs."

Actually in your case it is called rationalization and denial. It is likely that you where such a poor quality performer that you where fired so now you attack the scientists at the labs as people with problems unlike you and there is something wrong with all them and not you. You cannot let this go so you will say complete lies in the public and the blogs attacking anyone and everyone who works at the lab or works as scientist or engineer. You claim that the workers at LANL or LLNL could not find employment outside the labs because you have not been able to find employment however your denial prevents you from seeing the obvious that it is about you and not about other people and this is why people call you "bitter".

Anonymous said...

September 24, 2015 at 7:16 AM

A masterful proof of September 24, 2015 at 6:32 AM's point.

Anonymous said...

So, one acquitted scientist proves the statement that, "LANL has a 'cowboy culture'"? Pretty thin soup if you ask me ... or my therapist.

Anonymous said...

September 24, 2015 at 7:16 AM

A masterful proof of September 24, 2015 at 6:32 AM's point.

September 24, 2015 at 9:13 AM


So 7:16 AM described you perfectly.

Anonymous said...

So, one acquitted scientist proves the statement that, "LANL has a 'cowboy culture'"? Pretty thin soup if you ask me ... or my therapist.

September 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM

WHL was not "acquitted." He pleaded guilty to one felony count and the others were dropped by the government as part of the plea deal. He is an admitted felon having mishandled classified material.

Anonymous said...

He is an admitted felon having mishandled classified material.

September 24, 2015 at 8:57 PM

True but we was never found guilty of being a spy. Additionally one person does not constitute a "culture" as any anthropologists can tell you and when statistics are
provided such as the ones from Holian that where posted about a week than it is clear that there is no cowboy culture. A better statement is one bitter mediocre ex-lab troll saying LANL has a cowboy culture is very thin soup.

Anonymous said...

Your own director once called you a cowboy (also a butthead), which must be why you are so obsessed with denying being a cowboy. I guess butthead hits too close to home.

Anonymous said...

WHL being an admitted felon does not in any way demonstrate a "cowboy culture" at LANL. If anything, the concerted effort by LANL management and staff to cooperate with the FBI and DOJ shows just the opposite.

Anonymous said...

"Your own director once called you a cowboy (also a butthead), which must be why you are so obsessed with denying being a cowboy. I guess butthead hits too close to home.

September 24, 2015 at 9:26 PM"

And that director shortly left the laboratory in disgrace and history shows was
a notorious liar. Everyone already knows this so for you to seriously say this means that you must be so bitter that your brain has rotted. What exactly happened to you to make you this way. Come on lets hear your story about how the labs wronged you.

Anonymous said...

Oh the labs were and are wonderful for me, and all the turmoil of recent years have only empowered me to rid them of people like you. It's a very satisfying job, one butthead at a time.

Anonymous said...

Oh the labs were and are wonderful for me, and all the turmoil of recent years have only empowered me to rid them of people like you. It's a very satisfying job, one butthead at a time.

September 26, 2015 at 8:48 AM

And that is why you are an unemployed angry little man who feels slighted that
the labs could not see just how smart you are. So did you get forced out, fired,
or did the shame get too much for you? Give us the story it could be therapeutic for you. Why do you hate the labs and world so much, just what did they do to you?

Anonymous said...

September 26, 2015 at 9:12 AM

"Sir., I will have you know I have a Phd from the University of Northern Cal State Fresno."

Another Cal State wanna be. But not only Cal State, but Cal Sate Northern. Are they accredited?

Anonymous said...

September 28, 2015 at 3:00 AM

Actually the trait I find most objectionable about posters on this blog is their immunity to sarcasm, irony, and yes, even humor. Such a dour lot. Boring, really.

Anonymous said...

Actually, well-crafted sarcasm is easily recognized as such -- the clumsy attempts on this blog, not so much!

Anonymous said...

Actually, well-crafted sarcasm is easily recognized as such -- the clumsy attempts on this blog, not so much!

September 30, 2015 at 6:57 PM

Actually, the art of effective sarcasm is that it is NOT easily recognized as such. Otherwise it is just a broad, unsophisticated attempt at humor of the sarcastic type as practiced by countless stand-up comics. True sarcasm is supposed to be evocative, abrasive, and ultimately seen as funny by those who "get it," a very small minority on this blog. Social sophistication is apparently not a strong point of posters here.

Anonymous said...

Hey, we make a living by blowin' shit up. Who needs social sophistication?

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