Actual post from Dec. 15 from one of the streams. This is a real topic. As far as promoting women and minorities even if their qualifications are not as good as the white male scientists, I am all for it. We need diversity at the lab and if that is what it takes, so be it. Quit your whining. Look around the lab, what do you see? White male geezers. How many African Americans do you see at the lab? Virtually none. LLNL is one of the MOST undiverse places you will see. Face it folks, LLNL is an institution of white male privilege and they don't want to give up their privileged positions. California, a state of majority Hispanics has the "crown jewel" LLNL nestled in the middle of it with very FEW Hispanics at all!
Comments
Network with some post-docs at LLNL and get their perspectives. Blogs do not attract deliriously happy people.
Good luck wherever you land next!
Regarding this blog, it is prone to hyperbole, but it does reflect real problems at LLNL.
It will also be hard to get promoted because the lab will be downsizing, not growing, so there will be no empty spots for promotion to.
LLNL is still a good place to spend for 2-4 years after PhD to pad your resume and move on to something better. But the bottom line is that if you work for a shrinking organization, it will be very hard to advance your career in the long run.
Anonymous
May 9, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Congrats on your PhD!
It's pretty dangerous to ask the "good idea/bad idea" question on this blog. As you can see if you look through virtually ANY thread on this blog, there are some very extreme negative viewpoints, and as you get to know those viewpoints, it's pretty clear that they're not what you'd call unbiased observers. So make sure to take that into account as you weigh the responses.
Anonymous
May 9, 2013 at 1:54 PM
Alot of the stuff in the blog wouldn't really apply to early career folks, unless you expect and require job security and lifelong employment. Of course, if you are supporting programmatic (nnsa) weapons work, you should expect greater job security overall compared to, say, basic research in unrelated fields. If you are cognizant about making decisions and doing work that benefits you and your own career development, there is little risk of early-career candidates taking a job at LLNL being a bad decision. My first job was at the lab and it was a great stepping stone for me. Hard work and constantly learning and improving, building up my expertise and capabilities, opened up many more career options and possibilities.
Anonymous
May 9, 2013 at 2:03 PM
Good salaries
Great location and weather
Friendly casual environment
Beach volley ball pit
Greater networking opportunities with Internet and high tech sector (if you want to make a career change or job change)
Whether the job turns out good is largely dependent on you, your expectations, your goals, and how hard you are willing to work to reach those goals. If you are a "glass is half empty" kind of person, the complaints you read about here may bother and distract you more than you might have wanted. Most people are able to function fine at the lab.
Anonymous
May 9, 2013 at 4:28 PM
"Alot of the stuff in the blog wouldn't really apply to early career folks"
I agree. All the pension, VSP/VSIP, politics at major-player levels, etc wouldn't really apply to you.
If you sense a good vibe with the leader and colleagues of the group you'd be working in, and the work is of interest to you, by all means go for it!
Most of the people on this blog are comparing the current lab to the past lab (which was pretty incredible), you will just be comparing it to the other offers you have, if it stacks up favorably, choose it. If you end up not liking it, ton of universities / silicon valley / bio companies to jump ship to.
Long Term: I think the trend for the lab is inexorably downward (due to many factors both internal and external), but spending a few years here could be great for you and your career.
Anonymous
May 9, 2013 at 5:49 PM
I came to the lab (SNL/LLNL/LANL) as a staff right after finishing my PhD about 2 years ago. It is totally clear to me that the entire NNSA complex is going downhill, but you can milk it for 2-5 years and jump ship to academia or industry. So the lab still makes good stepping stone, but only people of low ambition remain there more than 5 years nowadays. There is no pension anymore for people who joined with the past few years. There is a good ole boys club that makes it hard for young people to get funding. So if you come in with some funding, you can milk it for a few years to build your resume for IBM or Google or a university.
So I would take a staff offer and milk it. Just don't expect to stay there unless you are lazy or stupid or some combination. For you old farts, this doesn't apply since you got in before it tanked.
May 10, 2013 at 7:03 AM"
Many posters on this blog are rather bitter and can give you a tainted picture. Keeping that in mind I do agree with the statement above about the feelings of recent hires. It is not just that science is not being done it seems that it almost has no place in higher goals of the institute. It is a for-profit institution now so what brings in profit is the driver. Remarkably science has little if anything to do with the profit part. If 50% less science was done this year it would not make dent in the profit.
It's difficult to predict what LLNL program(s) will rise from the ashes of NIF. A lot of hope is pinned on global security and nuclear forensics but there is little if any real science in either and we have yet to establish national recognition not to mention daunting competition from the long-established agencies who themselves are under unprecedented fiscal pressure.
If you have survived the grind of obtaining a PhD then and you owe yourself a 1-2 postdoc. You may find as I did that the postdoc years are among the most enjoyable and formative period of your scientific career.
So long as you have your eyes wide open and you don't have any ridiculous expectations for yourself (demand to do 100% science and 0% program, demand for job security, etc.) you will have no problem there and you will in fact have a great time and be able to build your career and resume.
That's what it is all about anyways. It's just about national service, or money, or prestige. Everything you do is about building up your resume and your career to give get you to where you want to go, and to give yourself career independence (and mobility, if needed).
- Almost PhD
I have spent several years in academia as well as industry, and I can say that each has it's differences, it's pluses and minuses. However, I agree with many of the highly critical assessments of working at LLNL that are written on this blog. Your sweeping generalization has no basis.
Almost phd: working at LLNL for 2-3years would give you such perspective, which can be useful in adjusting to different work cultures. I highly recommend starting your career at a national lab, but urge you to seek higher ground elsewhere to build a career.
There are still good points at LLNL for postdoc but the long term stability is low. As long as you keep that in mind than it should be ok. There are many other labs like Oak Ridge where the future looks bright so keep these in mind.
HEY - The guy said "thank you" 11 posts ago, so I think you can all shut up now. No one is listening anymore. My God what is wrong with you people?
You are, and so is that other young almost-PhD that checked in at 5:39pm on 5/11 looking for insights on the Lab. There may be other young people checking in, too.
These topics are important for future candidates as well. They can search the internet/wayback machine/this blog and come across various perspectives at various times.
This blog isn't a real-time thing that evaporates into the ether. It's a resource.
I don't believe the PhD candidate disclosed her/his gender, which raises another cultural aspect of LLNL. It's still a white male dominated culture and there are almost no women in senior scientific positions or management.
That is reason enough to keep posting to the thread.
May 12, 2013 at 4:11 PM
If you take a job at LANL or LLNL and don't have a ready "escape route" to a better job, you are a fool. If you have the capability to respond to a stupid or (to your career) meaningless job transfer with "no thanks, I'll move on to something better" then the corporate hacks will think twice about hiring the "best and the brightest." Highly qualified candidates will be passed over for future drones. The death spiral begins.
May 12, 2013 at 10:48 PM
or Parney.
"Minute amounts of Pu are in the local environment with immeasurable effects.
Unless you frighten easily.
Calm down ladies.
May 13, 2013 at 2:10 PM"
That's right folks, if you are against vaporizing plutonium in a highly populated area you are not just a bleeding heart liberal,a Commie or even an anti-nuke activist. You are a female.
Thank you for proving my point.
Almost all of the other derision in this blog is directed toward men, a fair and well balanced bashing.
So calm down ladies and lovers of ladies.
You seriously don't see your own misogyny? And you are a "supporter" of the lab? We don't need people like you. We don't want people like you. People in organizations like Tri-Valley Care are better for the lab than people like you are. Find some other organization to attach your ignorance to.
Unless you frighten easily.
Calm down ladies.
May 13, 2013 at 2:10 PM"
"The chicken little in the reference was self-identified, Marylia Kelley, who could calm down.
Almost all of the other derision in this blog is directed toward men, a fair and well balanced bashing.
So calm down ladies and lovers of ladies."
May 14, 2013 at 10:08 PM
Welcome to LLNL. As I said before, most people are decent. Only a few ignorant employees like the one posting the above, will give women and minorities and LGBT individuals problems at the lab. Some organizations more than others protect and shield these types of risky employees.