Wednesday, October 30, 2013
o this is a bit premature but Detroit is talking about lowering union pensions to 16% of original amounts
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/30/detroit-bankruptcy-proposal-would-leave-pensioners-with-16-cents-on-dollar/
I also see in Virgina a Democrat might win for Governor.
I am guessing people there and here just do not get it.
I believe Pres. Obama innately understands how stupid the voters are and feeds into that with his absurd promises that (never happen)and of course is covered by the media which helps control the stupid people.
So my liberal and union friends, this spending will not last (no question about it). I would say to my progressive friends that if at the end of the day if the worst that happens is your pension is cut to 16% of the original value then you should count yourself lucky because I personally have no doubt(at all) that the ramifications of the debt of our country will be 100x worse than just having a pension cut.
I'm just saying...........
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25 comments:
If and when LLNS and LANS pensions go to PBGC 16 cents on the dollar is about what they'll get too. There was talked about this in 2006 when the country wasn’t $17 T in debt. Now the ship is taking on water and bilge pumps are failing bankruptcy is the ideal path to seek since it absolves any and all financial obligations. Many more will fall like dominoes before this is over and UC or DOE are not exempt. I guess Obama could write an EO for another $700B bail-out as a temporary fix until he’s gone but that’s not a cure for the results that are going to follow.
So I've collected a quarter million in pension payments while the TCP1 value increased by over $500M and the funding % increased from 115% to 130%.
This ain't the home of Shinola baby.
UC leaders had some foresight in the old days. They (we) set aside a bit each month and invested it carefully over a very long time. Thanks guys.
Take your fiction back to Neverland. Facts on the ground are here are solid.
I'm just saying.
The unions didn't acrew up Detroit or the auto industry.
The managers did.
That is unless you think the unions designed the crap they were selling.
Just saying that Obama would probably give the Republicans a better deal on long-term entitlement reform than most Democrats.
If he does he'd sure as heck better get some serious tax code adjustments to go with it.
October 30, 2013 at 8:08 PM
I'm assuming by your solid rant about how your pension program is so solid it cannot fail you have full control of the US and world economy. I hope so because I'm in the same boat but on the UC side however I'm also not foolish enough to believe I won't wake up some morning and find I no loner have a pension of any kind, the banks are all closed and the US / World economy if now in a world depression they cannot and will not get out of for decades. My feelings are this. Unless someone can hit a reset button on all the world debt and zero it out giving us a fresh start it isn't a matter of IF it's only a matter of WHEN.
October 31, 2013 at 6:08 AM:
Yeah, well, if you live your life as if your doomsday scenario is just around the corner, then for you, it will be as if it has already happened, while everyone else gets to go on as normal. Who loses?
Some embrace their self-fulfilling prophecies.
"The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come 'true'. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning."
I'm not sure how they can live with that level of pessimism and I'm not sure that I care as long as they stay far away from those of us with a more optimistic and realistic view of things.
It's 16 cents on the dollar they have earned. That is called stealing where I come from. If they were suppose to get 30,000 a year in pension they will now get a little under 5,000 a year. This is criminal in my book. If I was in Detroit and had worked all my life only to get ripped off like this, I would make sure I got what was owed me and not sit back and take this shiite!
The thing you got to remember is that Government workers typically get a much lower pay compared to the same job in private enterprise. The deal they made with the Devil is that in exchange for less wages then their neighbor they would get great benefits. Now the rug is being pulled from under these peoples legs. It burns me that this is happening.
...assuming by your solid rant about how your pension program is so solid it cannot fail you have full control of the US and world economy...
a foolish assumption, you should think more carefully
A careful statisical analysis of empirical evidence will lead to a conclusion of relative stability that does not require such a broad assumption.
Refer to Investments, Bodie, Kane and Myers. Chapters 1-3.
Dear friends,
If you think everything is going to be fine then what is going to happen when 100% of the Federal intake goes for interest on the debt?
I am being kind so let's not even talk about California debt.
Yes but those are artificially low rates.
That is a temporary situation that will not last much longer (in my opinion) so wake up already!
I am being totally honest here.
If you are helpless than I am for helping you all day long.
But if you are clueless (like the above poster) you will gt what you deserve and it is not going to bother me one bit.
Yes but those are artificially low rates.
That is a temporary situation that will not last much longer (in my opinion) so wake up already!
October 31, 2013 at 8:11 PM
I should "wake up" because you have an off the wall opinion? You are the one who is dreaming. Not interested in your opinions. How about some actual facts?
About 32 cents for every dollar of U.S. debt, or $4.6 trillion, is owned by the federal government in trust funds, for Social Security and other programs such as retirement accounts, according to the U.S. Department of Treasury.
The largest portion of U.S. debt, 68 cents for every dollar or about $10 trillion, is owned by individual investors, corporations, state and local governments and, yes, even foreign governments such as China that hold Treasury bills, notes and bonds.
Foreign governments hold about 46 percent of all U.S. debt held by the public, more than $4.5 trillion. The largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is China, which owns more about $1.2 trillion in bills, notes and bonds, according to the Treasury.
In total, China owns about 8 percent of publicly held U.S. debt. Of all the holders of U.S. debt China is the third-largest, behind only the Social Security Trust Fund's holdings of nearly $3 trillion and the Federal Reserve's nearly $2 trillion holdings in Treasury investments, purchased as part of its quantitative easing program to boost the economy.
Criticism of China Owning U.S. Debt
To put China's ownership of U.S. debt in perspective, its holding of $1.2 trillion is even larger than the amount owned by American households. U.S. citizens hold only about $959 billion in U.S. debt, according to the Federal Reserve.
Other large foreign holders of U.S. debt include Japan, which owns $912 billion; the United Kingdom, which owns $347 billion; Brazil, which holds $211 billion; Taiwan, which holds $153 billion; and Hong Kong, which owns $122 billion.
Demographic shifts and per-capita spending are causing Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid expenditures to grow significantly faster than GDP. If this trend continues, government simulations under various assumptions project mandatory spending for these programs will "exceed taxes dedicated to these programs by more than $40 trillion over the next 75 years on a present value basis".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States
I think if I dug any deeper our friend the progressive (in some of the above comments)might renounce his God (the community organizer hustler).
I think if I dug any deeper our friend the progressive (in some of the above comments)might renounce his God (the community organizer hustler).
November 1, 2013 at 9:56 AM
Please dig more. It's quit interesting to see where the country is heading and how quickly things could go to hell in a hand basket.
It's obvious to anyone who looks that Social Security and Medicare are unsupportable in their current configurations, just based solely on demographic projections. So, they WILL change, and drastically. The only question is whether the country and its representatives in DC can get their act together in time to "fix" them in a meaningful way that is not too painful, or whether they let it come to a cliff, where all current recipients would suddenly stop receiving benefits. Keep in mind that for SS at least, the law that created it also allows Congress to modify or cancel it at any time.
My friends, relatively modest and reasonable postponements to future SS benefits will bring FICA income and outflow into alignment.
It is hard to do now. With small pluralities most political energy goes into maintaining positions vis a vis opponents, little energy is left for governance because the opponents are evenly matched.
In the near future after either of the two parties gains a practical majority, the required FICA age increases (2 -3 years) can be made.
The leverage is tremendous.
Also in a few years, we will have a better handle on the initial impact of the ACA social experiment. It can be adjusted or trashed at that point.
In the meantime, yearly budgets will be brought closer to balance by continued sequesters, which should drive departmental efficiency and slow the growth of government employee compensation.
Though I oppose ACA, it is comforting to think that most folks will have a small income and some medical care as they age.
November 1, 2013 at 6:07 PM
I oppose ACA, Obamacare, or as some refer to it now as the Voters Protection Act 2013 since these are the group of people it caters too. Leave things alone, do not give any government subsidies to anyone for any reason. If they seek emergency room care, they get the bill and they pay for it out of their pocket however they have to. Do not pass that cost onto the tax payer, pass it to the patients.
November 2, 2013 at 5:14 AM:
You do realize that Social Security and Medicare are "government subsidies"?
Keep in mind that for SS at least, the law that created it also allows Congress to modify or cancel it at any time.
If this day comes I hope those who did it are taken to the steps of their facility and public does what is due to everyone of them one by one.
That day will certainly come, and soon. Not outright cancellation of the Social Security program, but drastic modification to address the ever-decreasing numbers of younger workers that pay SS taxes to support the ever-increasing numbers of Baby Boomer retirees. Eliminating the income cap on payroll taxes, means-testing beneficiaries, and mandating later retirement age, are all coming. If Congress has the guts to do this soon, and the intelligence to do it right, Social Security can be saved. If not...Well, I just hope that people nearing retirement don't put all their eggs in the Social Security basket.
SS will be means tested. You can take that to the bank. But that will not happen until pensions, 401k's and IRS's are partially confiscated. Its coming people stop watching dancing with the stars. We are at the fourth turning. What we through in the garbage today you will kill for tomorrow.
POS
What we through in the garbage today you will kill for tomorrow.
POS
November 4, 2013 at 3:01 PM
Personally, I don't go "through" any garbage. Maybe you do, to try what your neighbors are eating.
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