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Sunday, May 19, 2013
SSVSP RSVP
So did you SSVSP and why?
Give details.
75 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I was going to retire from UC this summer and start double dipping for a while. The buyout short circuits the timing.
It is time to go. NIF is being flushed down the sewer and it will take the entire lab with it. I've been at the lab 39 years and saw some great times. Looking back, the day we stopped testing was the day we started circling the drain. It was a really great place to work once upon a time. I felt that I was contributing to the defense of the country. Now I feel relieved to have one foot out the door. On June 14th, the other foot will join the first.
Good luck to those left behind. You are going to need it.
Yep, I took it. My feeling about LLNL are the same as poster #1
It’s been a pleasure working at LLNL for the first twenty-five years out of my thirty-one, but as you well know all good things must come to an end and now it’s time to move on and make room for the newcomers and the hopeful.
Here’s a little advice from a hard-headed old guy.
Pay your house off as soon as possible, become debt free, and retire at the earliest possible age. Don’t buy into the malarkey of working until you’re 70 so you can get a bigger social security check. Mathematically the statistics are stacked against you. Even if retired at age 62 you’ll have to live to age 84 to bring your Social Security account balance to zero dollars before death. I for one have no intention of leaving them a dime.
Having said that, one of my greatest regrets in life is wishing I would have listened to my elders at age seventeen instead of barely waking up in my late thirty’s. Being smarter and more receptive to financial advice would have enabled me to depart the work force long ago and probably lived ten years longer.
My original goal was to retire at age 55. I missed that boat by a long shot due to a downturn in the economy along with other unforeseen events such as the transition from UC to LLNS, which to this day I feel will go down in history as one of our nation’s greatest blunders.
For all who are staying on this train ride to the ISP please read on.
A Lockheed & Boeing Aerospace Study
For people retired at the age of 50,their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8.
For every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average. The Boeing experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 18 months, on average, prior to death.
Similarly, the Lockheed experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 17 months, on average, prior to death. I have heard the same figures for UK teachers (the article was in the Guardian, Uk)
"For people retired at the age of 50,their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8."
Interesting, but I have a really hard time believing this statistic. People who retire at the age of 65 can only expect to live about 18 months more on average? I'm sure that there are lot of people who retire at age 65 and make it to at least, say, 70. But according to this statistic, for every retiree making it to age 70, there would have to be many more who pass away within just a few months after retirement in order for the average lifespan to be 66.8 .
When I started at LLNL in 1971 I was told the average life span for anyone who retired from LLNL was 18months and I have seen this along the way and I've also seem many who don't make 55 or retirement at all. Sad. Some make it longer but my bet is many don't. I'm taking the SSVSP after 41 years and I'm 65so we'll see. I hope I'm one who lives much longer. 101 would de me just find so I can be in their snickers..instead of just breaking even
May 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM's statistics are a bit misleading. They are simply a reflection of the experimentally established fact that your life expectancy is a function of your birthdate (for a lot of reasons). The older you are, the shorter your life is expected to be. So, at every instant of time, the 65 year old has a shorter life expectancy than the 50 yeaar old, and much fewer years left on the ticker, whether retired or not.
My bet is the sooner you get away from all the BS thrown at you at work the more relaxed you’re going to be, the less stress and therefore you will live a LOT longer especially in today's world where they abuse the workers and threated them on a daily bases with little reminders like, "you need to work harder since you can be replaced by someone at 1/2 the pay at any time on a moments notice”, oh and I forgot to tell you there is no pension, benefits and you're just a # on a computer print-out waiting to be plucked Then to make things worse ULM allows AH to throw their request over the fence with little or no information and expect you to read their minds, do everything yesterday and to boot think they're # 1. Yeah, I can see where working longer is well worth it.
LLNL was once a great place to work. There was camaraderie among employees, you knew your managers and they knew you. We worked hard, but there were team-building events that knit our group into a family. I worked in several areas - research, safety, weapons, and enjoyed them all.
Then came transition and a black cloud now covers the sun. For profit is NOT the same as a research institute.
It started with the firing of the gardeners, and driving into work past weeds that were waist high. Then hundreds of our friends and coworkers were laid off, and the rest of us were told to work harder with less. Building infrastructures are failing, but there is no money to do preventive maintenance. So your in a building with breaking pipes, no heat, mold on the walls. Its demoralizing. Yet some areas (NIF) have the money to remodel, remodel again, plant grass, replant flowers and shrubs. You have a beautiful landscaped area from the north gate to NIF, while the rest of the lab has weeds growing in tanbark and boarded up trailers and buildings around the work areas. But I digress.
There have been 4 reorgs in my directorate in the past 5 years, with 4 different directors as well as 4 different group supervisors, and there seems to be no organizational direction (no surprise).
My advice to all of you young-uns out there in your 30s and 40s:
1) live below your means 2) max out your 401K EVERY YEAR 3) add extra to your house payment to pay it off early 4) retire while you still have your health and your sanity.
Money isn't everything. I'm retiring in my mid-50s with a pension that is less than 1/2 my salary. My goal is to now enjoy the next 30 years, to the best of my abilities.
You keep thinking that and work until 70, I need you SS and LLNS needs your retirement so ULM can live longer and better. You're most likely worth more dead to your wife than alive anyway. have fund fool.
I love how the baby boomers that destroyed our country by spending all the $$, giving their self-entitled kids everything, and giving me useless advice. Thanks for useless advice and now we have to struggle to clean up your mess and do this will a self entitled population that you create.
Have fun in you retirement....what happens if the dollar becomes useless..... This society is so so selfish and that is the problem. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM
"My advice to all of you young-uns out there in your 30s and 40s:
1) live below your means 2) max out your 401K EVERY YEAR 3) add extra to your house payment to pay it off early 4) retire while you still have your health and your sanity."
HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO DO THIS WITH NO RAISES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MY PAYCHECK IS LESS THAN THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To respond to May 20, 2013 at 7 am: I didn't get the raises either during the last 3 years, and for most of my career made less than $100k. Also a single income household with a child.
And to May 20 at 6:50: I hope you're not referring to me. I was not spending all the money, that's the point. And my "entitled" child now has a job while attending college and worked in high school.
Welcome to your "work for life slave labor workforce" sociarty you so go after. No unions, no raises, reduced pay, no benefits, keep working until your 70 and the list of BS socialist ideologies goes on. You voted this BS in, now you deal with it. If you were smart you'd be asking for higher wages, full medical upon retirement, a defined pesnion program that paid 100% of your salary after 40 years and much much more but you young stupid people are falling right into their trap. You've basically taken the US back to the 1930. Idiots.
My suggestion is TAKE IT NOW!! Life is too short. For those of you who can't, maybe Parney can look at saving money by reducing the matching TCP2 contribution plus the 3.5% base building. Oh Wait!! Parney, aren't you in TCP2? Stop looking at your own paycheck and think about the welfare of all employees. TCP1 people are going to get screwed BIG TIME.
Yes you are owed, "higher wages, full medical upon retirement, a defined pesnion program that paid 100% of your salary after 40 years and much much more".
Typical "victim". "entitlement" mentality. It makes me ashamed that our society has produced such parasites.
It makes me ashamed that we have so many stupid people like you who don't have a damn clue of how the Obamanators is shafting you, your children and all of those to come thereafter. You poor saps will never make enough money to bank 1.5 to 2.0 M in your 401k so you can live the same lifestyle retired while you were working. Your generation only thinks of TODAY, spend , spend, you' owes me and think the well to do should to taxes to assure you have eveyhtng you need. WRONG ANSWER BUBBA. You and your type will die on the job behind your keyborad or cause a major accident on the road due to a heart attack for working your butts off for the corportation and get "zero" in return. Hnag in there BUTTY, you'll do fine.
What saddens me is the sheer number of people that are over 65 that refuse to take the VSP and get the heck out of here. You have folks that are 67, 69, 70 that just won't go. Please leave already and save jobs for those of us who have another 10 to 20 years left to work. Have some consideration. Geez.
Do you have a job worth having or are you just brain-dead? You must be one of those that missed the boat and maybe has just now come to the reality 99% of this nation are going to be slaves to the company for life. In the meantime you'll be requied to pay social security you'll never get to draw simply because the government figured out if they just make it so you can get this so called benefit until 70 the likelihood is you'll be in lala land anyway and that few hundred thousand you and your employer paid can now be given to a new immigrant who'll work for 50% of what you did and twice a hard. Dude, you have so much to learn. Oh and BTW, the people your coming down on becasue they have a pension, worked hard for it and they didn't ask the rich to pay their way.
They have no life and no nothing else but this place. They are affriad if they leave they'll have less than 18 months to live due to boredum. I've seen this many time in my 31 years. I leaving it behind for the young and I say goodluck with this new no pension for profits roganization.
Which is so many people hate people with defined pension programs. It's seems if a company does good and the employees are happy they can't stand it regardless if 90% of them couldn't qualify to do the work we're done and are doing for the past 50 years. I've very glad I'm one of the 98% who saved and have a pension. My son is not so fortunate but he's well aware of what needs to be done before he's 45 years old.
I'm in my early 50's and have been at LLNL for more than 20 years. I plan to take the SSVSP. My pension payment will be about 35% of my current salary.
The main driver for my decision to leave LLNL is a management culture that is out of control. Increasingly burdensome policies have made it almost impossible to accomplish productive work. These same policies discourage PI's from bringing in new projects/funds. For example, in one relatively small project, I have to write 5 independent monthly progress reports. One report goes to my sponsor in DC, which is appropriate. The other reports go to various management entities around the Laboratory (all in different formats, of course). These people don't pay my salary, yet I am required to satisfy their demands. This is one of several dozen examples.
I agree with the previous posters who emphasized the importance of living below your means, contributing to the 401k, etc. I live way below my means, which allows me to max out my 401k and put additional funds into after-tax investment accounts. I have no financial worries.
I am looking forward to getting out of this place.
Anonymous said... Iguess no literacy test is required to hire into LLNL.
May 20, 2013 at 5:51 PM
Awh, I feel so bad for you. You Lose ! Now go crawl back in your hole, click your heels three times and say, "there no place like one that has a defined pensions plan.: now repeat it carefully and wish upon a star.
"I'm in my early 50's and have been at LLNL for more than 20 years. I plan to take the SSVSP. My pension payment will be about 35% of my current salary."
Concur completely. Right there with you.
Only thing I'd add, is when you said "These people don't pay my salary, yet I am required to satisfy their demands." I would add that you bring in the funding that pays for all these people on overhead to relentless harass you for reporting and often take credit for your progress or for you having brought in the funds in the first place.
The LLNL management culture is indeed out of control (in size, playing too much internal politics, and generally keeping their eye on everything except what is important). Also out of touch with reality. They just talk to each other. Complete echo chamber.
After years of being lowered in my rank group, being told that my work was worthless,working for acting after acting manager or the infamous appointee.....just watch. With my current string of luck I will be identified as "key personnel".
FYI, senior management has access to the list of employees who have signed up for the VSP, and are already discussing how to fill in the holes that will be left vacant.
Shame on you Parney for telling us the decision would be confidential until May 25. I guess this just goes on the long list of lies from upper management.
Another reason to leave, and be sure to sign up at 4:55 on may 24!
There are no morale hazards to management having access to the list. It is probably a mute point to think that waiting until the last minute will make much of a difference. That HR planning to fill the gaps will take a bit of time anyways. On top of that, you leaving is probably the last thing they have on their mind. They still have big shortfalls and bigger problems to deal with. No point trying to kick them on your way out.
Parney is definitely an honest broker. Remember that he didn't create or compound any of the problems and has done a reasonable job so far. Perhaps the problem many have with him is that he hasn't brought about changes quickly enough. If you think of his short term job as having to pilot a soft landing, he and the lab are still mid flight.
If you think of his short term job as having to pilot a soft landing, he and the lab are still mid flight.
In other words he hasn't brought it down yet, but is well on his way especially as the engine ( NIF) runs out of fuel since it will never generate its own.
I'd say that sums up LLNL's future quite well, Thanks.
Does anyone have an official count of how many people took the SSVSP. I am hearing rumor of 425+ . I hope a lot more jump on the train in the next two days. I did just one day after it was offered and I expected to see a lot more but I guess 400+ will have to do. Would have been nice to at least make the 600 that were authorized. the problem I see is there are still to many people who are 65 sticking around. LLNS needs to add one more thing to their policy manual. Mandatory retirement at 65 with no possibility of return in any capacity for any reason, ever. If you don't have your sheet together at age 65 and figure out there is a life outside this one square mile then you need mental help and should be confined to an institution until cured.
yeah I was thinking more along the line of engine 1 being dead and engine 2 being on the fritz and having very few options for the pilot.. but your analogy is better.
Hope many were able to the deal and get out if they could. Protect your sanity and your health.
Things are only going to be worse for those who remain behind and try to survive a few more years with top-heavy management and fewer people doing the actual work. Sometimes you need to know when it's the right time to just walk away.
I guess we have ambiguity regarding what "remains confidential" means. I would have thought that it means management would see it but was not allowed disclose any of that list to the broader employee population.
I guess we have ambiguity regarding what "remains confidential" means. I would have thought that it means management would see it but was not allowed disclose any of that list to the broader employee population.
May 21, 2013 at 8:46 PM
No that's called keeping the employees in the dark which is far worse than any time during UC's rules but is so bad under LLNS rule even the first line supervisors don't know who they are walking out the gate until some little girl from Akima shows up and says, "do you have boxes, you're leaving". Basically LLNS ULM keep the workers in the dark and feed them BS like a mushroom.
Post the list and lets see who is leaving instead of keeping it a secret. It doesn't really make any difference to the operation of the lab since it's shrinking anyway and all the good jobs are gone, so who cares.
Managers are not allowed to just willy nilly share employee action information with other employees. Assuring confidentiality was a prudent move. An employee that signs up early may feel uncomfortable if that information is transmitted over the lab. If an employee wants that information transmitted, he or she can do that himself. That is not management's job to do that.
I think the lab would also violate some privacy rules with regards to employee information by disseminating the list. Though just the total numbers should be fine. I can't see why management should be compelled to release numbers though. It's not like they promised up front to provide running tallies, like on a website with bell rings each time a new name is added to the list. Ding! Ding! Ding!
Anonymous said... If employees self identify as taking the ssvsp it would circumvent the managerial blackout
May 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM
I think they are scared, of what I don't know. I'd be so happy if I was getting the hell otu of here I'd let the world know I was leaving and why. Can't wait until the door opens for me. FAOT
I think it is funny that the baby boom generation is so consumed with greed that they proved me right by arguing against my point....You baby boomers are the worst parents and generation (Note: I am sure there are good baby boomers...and I know a few....but not a lot.) Thank you for proving my point. Have fun with your money as I have to work ten times harder than you to clean up your mess. But at least I live in America.
I think it is funny that the baby boom generation is so consumed with greed...
May 22, 2013 at 7:29 AM
More than a little jealousy there. Getting what you are entitled to is greed? Easy to say when you find yourself in a position where you aren't (yet) entitled to anything. Grow up. Pay your dues.
Defending yourself by calling the other person names. = guilty = greedy The facts are the greatest generation left the world a better place ( baby boomers parents) The baby bloomer generation left the world in a worse place...this is not personal just facts... I thought parents should want more for their kids ... I guessed wrong ..
Get a grip. Learn the system and work within it. Baby Boomers were offered certain compensation for their work, and took it. It was a social and work CONTRACT. Many of us took less money to work at the Labs than we would have received in the private sector in the name of national needs and security, and were PROMISED certain compensation. That compensation is now DUE. (Of course, you are probably someone who would run out on contracts and other obligations like student loans, arguing that they weren't fair,that you are owed something). What's the matter, didn't you get enough "participation trophies" when you were a kid to validate your "specialness."
My 3 kids would argue with your assessment of their parents (maybe you hate yours). My 3 kids were sent through college by their "bad" BB parents, earned advanced degrees, developed SKILLS, have good, technical jobs, and turned out to be responsible, tax-paying and contributing members of society. They understand that things are different now then when their parents were in the work force, are not hung up over entitlements, understand the current system and are working well within it to live happy, comfortable lives and plan for a secure retirement.
Stop being an entitled whiner and get on with it. You'll have nobody else to blame but yourself if you have to work until you are 70. Anyone thinking that they can retire fine on ONLY Social Security checks has been delusional regardless of what generation they were from. ($1000 a month isn't going to get it done, unless you have a taste for dog food and crackers). I suggest you spend less time whining, more time working/earning/contributing, and save your money instead of spending it on lattes at Starbucks, video games/iphones, and $15 beers at the local brew pub. Heck, interest is at an all time low, real estate values have dropped, and now is the time to invest, instead of crying about everything.
Whether or not the lab management keeps you in the dark about total numbers (intentionally or as required by policy or otherwise), it shouldn't matter to individual employees trying to make a decision of whether to take the package or not. You shouldn't take it just because you see others take it (unless you are really worried about the lab hitting the limit and you missing the boat). If you haven't figured out what decision you need to make that is best for you, having a look at total numbers isn't going to help you make a more informed decision. I suspect that some just want to see a large number to be able to "stick it" to the lab. I hate to break it to you... that's the last thing they are worried about.
And we don't care neither cause right after these 425 leave Oct 1st is right around the corner where 500 more should be leaving under an ISP. Lets Get-R Done. They house should be cleaned out before Christmas.
Leaving after 28 years at the lab. I agree with others here that this place has seen much better days. Right now, an hour after the deadline to apply, my only real concern is that they'll reject my application (and I have good reasons for this concern). I signed up for the VSP within the first hour it was open and by the next day I had shared it with my supervisors, some of my closest colleagues, and managers. I want everyone to know that I want to leave, I figure I have better chances of being accepted that way. I'm an engineer, I'm in my mid 50's, I've lived frugally and maxed out on my contributions to retirement savings for years. I'm leaving a few years before I had planned and with less than 50% of my salary, but the thought of staying here a few more years is tormenting. Nonetheless, it's a leap of faith, but it's not totally wreckless, I have my retirement to support my decision. Besides, I'm still young and experienced enough that I may still be able to find a better job somewhere else, and if not I can always join Engineers w/o Frontiers or the Peace Corps, go do some good somewhere else. I still have much to contribute, but this place has become too rancid for me to be my best. If you are like me, I praise you for your decision. If you are staying behind I sincerely wish you the best.
And we don't care neither cause right after these 425 leave Oct 1st is right around the corner where 500 more should be leaving under an ISP. Lets Get-R Done. They house should be cleaned out before Christmas.
May 23, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Anyone this dumb should not be allowed access to a computer. Jeez, do you ever spell check or grammar check yourself? Do you know you come off as a stupid high school dropout? Is your hero in life really Larry the Cable Guy?
Ahole, did you find out which law prevents the IRS from uniformly applying greater scrutiny to all tax exempt status applications? I didn't think so, moron. How you call others stupid, I can't comprehend. You are the dumbest AH around. Moron. Get an education idiot.
Are you sure you are posting on the correct blog? The topic of this conversation is the SSVSP. Not the IRS, not aholes, not morons. If you are not a LLNS Employee, you can't even answer the topic question. Stick to topic, and don't waste our time with your mindless rants.
There is only one poster here that "ahole, moron, idiot" refers to. He knows who he is, even though he pretends as if it could be someone else. Some pretty classic posts from him too, about abortion, tritium, plutonium, women. Typical livermoron.
Okay, what's the real number of people who signed up? Anyone have the facts? I'm hoping it between 425 and 599 that way no one will be told they can't go. That would be very demoralizing and not good for the employee or the company I'll assure you...
Anonymous Anonymous said... About 450 Happy campers signed up! This is fact.
May 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM
Very good. I was hoping for more but at least this prevent any more lay-offs for FY-13. Now we need to look at FY-14 where LLNS is already $80M short. I suspect between the $80M , 130 people suing the lab who will al get similar payouts as did the first five will result in additional shortfalls of about $70M and then comes sequestration and congress saying hell no we're not giving you a dime to save your ass. My guess is LLNS should be about $150M short for FY-14. That should result in another 500 people out the gate by Dec 25th 2013. Afterward they can relax until the next cut only 10 months away.
Whooo, all you young people should be saying thank you to everyone who took the SSVSP. They just saved you jobs for FY-14.
450 X $300,000 = $135,000,000
They just paid off FY-13 debt, the laws suits to come and all of FY-14 fiscal problems. If LLNS would just keep doing this every year for the next ten years the lab will finally be downsized to fit its future budgets. The sad new is this. It means there will be no ISP and for those who were waiting for this to happen so you could draw 24 months of unemployment, you're just SOL and missed the boat. Thanks to all those who took the SSVSP. I will forever be in debt to you.
You seemed to have forgotten about one more bill Parney has to pay. He owes the TCP-1 pension plan $40M from last year and $80M this year so there goes $120 million of the $135 million he just saved by the SSVSP. I guess that'll keep the TCP-1 employee contributions to 5% instead of 7%. There is some good that came out of this but on that note we're back to shortfalls and an guaranteed ISP. Is there no winning here?
My bet is NNSA gave them this money to LLNS and it will not come out of the operational funds and for sure LLNS $82M for profit and party money they get for doing such a shit-hot job. Otherwise they'd have never put a cap of 600 people. You'll also see top mangers get big boners checks for this too.
Do not blame on Parney. He merely inherits the problems created by formal lab directors. Parney is well much better than the previous one. I hope from now on, LLNL is a better place to work than before.
75 comments:
I was going to retire from UC this summer and start double dipping for a while. The buyout short circuits the timing.
It is time to go. NIF is being flushed down the sewer and it will take the entire lab with it. I've been at the lab 39 years and saw some great times. Looking back, the day we stopped testing was the day we started circling the drain. It was a really great place to work once upon a time. I felt that I was contributing to the defense of the country. Now I feel relieved to have one foot out the door. On June 14th, the other foot will join the first.
Good luck to those left behind. You are going to need it.
Yep, I took it. My feeling about LLNL are the same as poster #1
It’s been a pleasure working at LLNL for the first twenty-five years out of my thirty-one, but as you well know all good things must come to an end and now it’s time to move on and make room for the newcomers and the hopeful.
Here’s a little advice from a hard-headed old guy.
Pay your house off as soon as possible, become debt free, and retire at the earliest possible age. Don’t buy into the malarkey of working until you’re 70 so you can get a bigger social security check. Mathematically the statistics are stacked against you. Even if retired at age
62 you’ll have to live to age 84 to bring your Social Security account balance to zero dollars before death. I for one have no intention of leaving them a dime.
Having said that, one of my greatest regrets in life is wishing I would have listened to my elders at age seventeen instead of barely waking up in my late thirty’s. Being smarter and more receptive to financial advice would have enabled me to depart the work force long ago and probably lived ten years longer.
My original goal was to retire at age 55. I missed that boat by a long shot due to a downturn in the economy along with other unforeseen events such as the transition from UC to LLNS, which to this day I feel will go down in history as one of our nation’s greatest blunders.
For all who are staying on this train ride to the ISP please read on.
A Lockheed & Boeing Aerospace Study
For people retired at the age of 50,their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8.
For every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average. The Boeing experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 18 months, on average, prior to death.
Similarly, the Lockheed experience is that employees retiring at age of 65 receive pension checks for only 17 months, on average, prior to death. I have heard the same figures for UK teachers (the article was in the Guardian, Uk)
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/age-65-rule/10264-life-span-vs-retirement-age.html
Retire<> Die <> Years Left
49.9…….86………36.1
51.2…….85.3…….34.1
52.5…….84.6…….32.1
53.8…….83.9…….30.1
55.1…….83.2…….28.1 = 83
56.4…….82.5…….26.1
57.2…….81.4…….24.2
58.3…….80………21.7
59.2…….78.5…….19.3
60.1…….76.8…….16.7
61………74.5…….13.5
62.1…….71.8…….9.7 = 71
63.1…….69.3…….6.2
64.1…….67.9…….3.8
65.2…….66.8…….1.6 = 66 Bingo !!
See also http://www.buzzle.com/articles/retirement-age-and-life-expectancy.html
"For people retired at the age of 50,their average life span is 86; whereas for people retired at the age of 65, their average life span is only 66.8."
Interesting, but I have a really hard time believing this statistic. People who retire at the age of 65 can only expect to live about 18 months more on average? I'm sure that there are lot of people who retire at age 65 and make it to at least, say, 70. But according to this statistic, for every retiree making it to age 70, there would have to be many more who pass away within just a few months after retirement in order for the average lifespan to be 66.8 .
May 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM
When I started at LLNL in 1971 I was told the average life span for anyone who retired from LLNL was 18months and I have seen this along the way and I've also seem many who don't make 55 or retirement at all. Sad. Some make it longer but my bet is many don't. I'm taking the SSVSP after 41 years and I'm 65so we'll see. I hope I'm one who lives much longer. 101 would de me just find so I can be in their snickers..instead of just breaking even
May 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM's statistics are a bit misleading. They are simply a reflection of the experimentally established fact that your life expectancy is a function of your birthdate (for a lot of reasons). The older you are, the shorter your life is expected to be. So, at every instant of time, the 65 year old has a shorter life expectancy than the 50 yeaar old, and much fewer years left on the ticker, whether retired or not.
May 19, 2013 at 2:02 PM
My bet is the sooner you get away from all the BS thrown at you at work the more relaxed you’re going to be, the less stress and therefore you will live a LOT longer especially in today's world where they abuse the workers and threated them on a daily bases with little reminders like, "you need to work harder since you can be replaced by someone at 1/2 the pay at any time on a moments notice”, oh and I forgot to tell you there is no pension, benefits and you're just a # on a computer print-out waiting to be plucked Then to make things worse ULM allows AH to throw their request over the fence with little or no information and expect you to read their minds, do everything yesterday and to boot think they're # 1. Yeah, I can see where working longer is well worth it.
The Boeing "study" is an urban legend:
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/pension/seminars/Rumor.pdf
Hell yes I'm taking the VSP!
LLNL was once a great place to work. There was camaraderie among employees, you knew your managers and they knew you. We worked hard, but there were team-building events that knit our group into a family. I worked in several areas - research, safety, weapons, and enjoyed them all.
Then came transition and a black cloud now covers the sun. For profit is NOT the same as a research institute.
It started with the firing of the gardeners, and driving into work past weeds that were waist high. Then hundreds of our friends and coworkers were laid off, and the rest of us were told to work harder with less. Building infrastructures are failing, but there is no money to do preventive maintenance. So your in a building with breaking pipes, no heat, mold on the walls. Its demoralizing. Yet some areas (NIF) have the money to remodel, remodel again, plant grass, replant flowers and shrubs. You have a beautiful landscaped area from the north gate to NIF, while the rest of the lab has weeds growing in tanbark and boarded up trailers and buildings around the work areas. But I digress.
There have been 4 reorgs in my directorate in the past 5 years, with 4 different directors as well as 4 different group supervisors, and there seems to be no organizational direction (no surprise).
My advice to all of you young-uns out there in your 30s and 40s:
1) live below your means
2) max out your 401K EVERY YEAR
3) add extra to your house payment to pay it off early
4) retire while you still have your health and your sanity.
Money isn't everything. I'm retiring in my mid-50s with a pension that is less than 1/2 my salary. My goal is to now enjoy the next 30 years, to the best of my abilities.
May 19, 2013 at 10:12 PM
Whoops - I meant the beautifuly landscaped road from the EAST gate to NIF.
May 19, 2013 at 7:47 PM
You keep thinking that and work until 70, I need you SS and LLNS needs your retirement so ULM can live longer and better. You're most likely worth more dead to your wife than alive anyway. have fund fool.
I love how the baby boomers that destroyed our country by spending all the $$, giving their self-entitled kids everything, and giving me useless advice. Thanks for useless advice and now we have to struggle to clean up your mess and do this will a self entitled population that you create.
Have fun in you retirement....what happens if the dollar becomes useless.....
This society is so so selfish and that is the problem.
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM
Baby boomers ....The worst and selfish generation ..
"My advice to all of you young-uns out there in your 30s and 40s:
1) live below your means
2) max out your 401K EVERY YEAR
3) add extra to your house payment to pay it off early
4) retire while you still have your health and your sanity."
HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO DO THIS WITH NO RAISES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MY PAYCHECK IS LESS THAN THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To respond to May 20, 2013 at 7 am:
I didn't get the raises either during the last 3 years, and for most of my career made less than $100k. Also a single income household with a child.
And to May 20 at 6:50: I hope you're not referring to me. I was not spending all the money, that's the point. And my "entitled" child now has a job while attending college and worked in high school.
Regards from May 19 at 10:12 pm
May 20, 2013 at 7:00 AM
Welcome to your "work for life slave labor workforce" sociarty you so go after. No unions, no raises, reduced pay, no benefits, keep working until your 70 and the list of BS socialist ideologies goes on. You voted this BS in, now you deal with it. If you were smart you'd be asking for higher wages, full medical upon retirement, a defined pesnion program that paid 100% of your salary after 40 years and much much more but you young stupid people are falling right into their trap. You've basically taken the US back to the 1930. Idiots.
My suggestion is TAKE IT NOW!! Life is too short. For those of you who can't, maybe Parney can look at saving money by reducing the matching TCP2 contribution plus the 3.5% base building. Oh Wait!! Parney, aren't you in TCP2? Stop looking at your own paycheck and think about the welfare of all employees. TCP1 people are going to get screwed BIG TIME.
Yes you are owed,
"higher wages, full medical upon retirement, a defined pesnion program that paid 100% of your salary after 40 years and much much more".
Typical "victim". "entitlement" mentality.
It makes me ashamed that our society has produced such parasites.
May 20, 2013 at 10:57 AM
It makes me ashamed that we have so many stupid people like you who don't have a damn clue of how the Obamanators is shafting you, your children and all of those to come thereafter. You poor saps will never make enough money to bank 1.5 to 2.0 M in your 401k so you can live the same lifestyle retired while you were working. Your generation only thinks of TODAY, spend , spend, you' owes me and think the well to do should to taxes to assure you have eveyhtng you need. WRONG ANSWER BUBBA. You and your type will die on the job behind your keyborad or cause a major accident on the road due to a heart attack for working your butts off for the corportation and get "zero" in return. Hnag in there BUTTY, you'll do fine.
What saddens me is the sheer number of people that are over 65 that refuse to take the VSP and get the heck out of here. You have folks that are 67, 69, 70 that just won't go. Please leave already and save jobs for those of us who have another 10 to 20 years left to work. Have some consideration. Geez.
May 20, 2013 at 10:57 AM
Do you have a job worth having or are you just brain-dead? You must be one of those that missed the boat and maybe has just now come to the reality 99% of this nation are going to be slaves to the company for life. In the meantime you'll be requied to pay social security you'll never get to draw simply because the government figured out if they just make it so you can get this so called benefit until 70 the likelihood is you'll be in lala land anyway and that few hundred thousand you and your employer paid can now be given to a new immigrant who'll work for 50% of what you did and twice a hard. Dude, you have so much to learn. Oh and BTW, the people your coming down on becasue they have a pension, worked hard for it and they didn't ask the rich to pay their way.
May 20, 2013 at 12:07 PM
They have no life and no nothing else but this place. They are affriad if they leave they'll have less than 18 months to live due to boredum. I've seen this many time in my 31 years. I leaving it behind for the young and I say goodluck with this new no pension for profits roganization.
We have more assets than 98% of the workers in the world.
We (our assets, here in Ca.) are worth more than 90% of the people in the US.
Most people, not all (in the US)have less than $25,000 saved for retirement.
The moral of the story is to be grateful for what you do have and that my friends and co-workers will help you to live longer in retirement.
May 20, 2013 at 2:40 PM
Which is so many people hate people with defined pension programs. It's seems if a company does good and the employees are happy they can't stand it regardless if 90% of them couldn't qualify to do the work we're done and are doing for the past 50 years. I've very glad I'm one of the 98% who saved and have a pension. My son is not so fortunate but he's well aware of what needs to be done before he's 45 years old.
Iguess no literacy test is required to hire into LLNL.
I'm in my early 50's and have been at LLNL for more than 20 years. I plan to take the SSVSP. My pension payment will be about 35% of my current salary.
The main driver for my decision to leave LLNL is a management culture that is out of control. Increasingly burdensome policies have made it almost impossible to accomplish productive work. These same policies discourage PI's from bringing in new projects/funds. For example, in one relatively small project, I have to write 5 independent monthly progress reports. One report goes to my sponsor in DC, which is appropriate. The other reports go to various management entities around the Laboratory (all in different formats, of course). These people don't pay my salary, yet I am required to satisfy their demands. This is one of several dozen examples.
I agree with the previous posters who emphasized the importance of living below your means, contributing to the 401k, etc. I live way below my means, which allows me to max out my 401k and put additional funds into after-tax investment accounts. I have no financial worries.
I am looking forward to getting out of this place.
Anonymous said...
Iguess no literacy test is required to hire into LLNL.
May 20, 2013 at 5:51 PM
Awh, I feel so bad for you. You Lose ! Now go crawl back in your hole, click your heels three times and say, "there no place like one that has a defined pensions plan.: now repeat it carefully and wish upon a star.
"I'm in my early 50's and have been at LLNL for more than 20 years. I plan to take the SSVSP. My pension payment will be about 35% of my current salary."
Concur completely. Right there with you.
Only thing I'd add, is when you said "These people don't pay my salary, yet I am required to satisfy their demands." I would add that you bring in the funding that pays for all these people on overhead to relentless harass you for reporting and often take credit for your progress or for you having brought in the funds in the first place.
The LLNL management culture is indeed out of control (in size, playing too much internal politics, and generally keeping their eye on everything except what is important). Also out of touch with reality. They just talk to each other. Complete echo chamber.
Time to go...
After years of being lowered in my rank group, being told that my work was worthless,working for acting after acting manager or the infamous appointee.....just watch. With my current string of luck I will be identified as "key personnel".
FYI, senior management has access to the list of employees who have signed up for the VSP, and are already discussing how to fill in the holes that will be left vacant.
Shame on you Parney for telling us the decision would be confidential until May 25. I guess this just goes on the long list of lies from upper management.
Another reason to leave, and be sure to sign up at 4:55 on may 24!
There are no morale hazards to management having access to the list. It is probably a mute point to think that waiting until the last minute will make much of a difference. That HR planning to fill the gaps will take a bit of time anyways. On top of that, you leaving is probably the last thing they have on their mind. They still have big shortfalls and bigger problems to deal with. No point trying to kick them on your way out.
May 21, 2013 at 6:43 AM
They should publish their names so we can see who is going. It would be great for all thei freinds to know
The fact that they lied to us about it really bothers me.
What else are they lying to us about?
Is Bergman on that VSP list?
I do not believe Parney is lying to us.
Obama,
in light of recent events, hell yes.
If you have ever met Parney or talked with him just a little bit you might come to the conclusion that he is not like that.
Parney is definitely an honest broker. Remember that he didn't create or compound any of the problems and has done a reasonable job so far. Perhaps the problem many have with him is that he hasn't brought about changes quickly enough. If you think of his short term job as having to pilot a soft landing, he and the lab are still mid flight.
If you think of his short term job as having to pilot a soft landing, he and the lab are still mid flight.
In other words he hasn't brought it down yet, but is well on his way especially as the engine ( NIF) runs out of fuel since it will never generate its own.
I'd say that sums up LLNL's future quite well, Thanks.
Does anyone have an official count of how many people took the SSVSP. I am hearing rumor of 425+ . I hope a lot more jump on the train in the next two days. I did just one day after it was offered and I expected to see a lot more but I guess 400+ will have to do. Would have been nice to at least make the 600 that were authorized. the problem I see is there are still to many people who are 65 sticking around. LLNS needs to add one more thing to their policy manual. Mandatory retirement at 65 with no possibility of return in any capacity for any reason, ever. If you don't have your sheet together at age 65 and figure out there is a life outside this one square mile then you need mental help and should be confined to an institution until cured.
yeah I was thinking more along the line of engine 1 being dead and engine 2 being on the fritz and having very few options for the pilot.. but your analogy is better.
Hope many were able to the deal and get out if they could. Protect your sanity and your health.
Things are only going to be worse for those who remain behind and try to survive a few more years with top-heavy management and fewer people doing the actual work. Sometimes you need to know when it's the right time to just walk away.
I do not believe Parney is lying to us.
Obama,
in light of recent events, hell yes.
If you have ever met Parney or talked with him just a little bit you might come to the conclusion that he is not like that.
May 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM
Oh !!! Perney is not lying to us? Perhaps not...But, did not he signed the paper ?
So, to avoid lying, he closed his eyes and signed the order to seal the deal.
So, he did not lie, did not see...
But people saw his signature. Caught red-handed. Yaheee !!!
I guess we have ambiguity regarding what "remains confidential" means. I would have thought that it means management would see it but was not allowed disclose any of that list to the broader employee population.
I guess we have ambiguity regarding what "remains confidential" means. I would have thought that it means management would see it but was not allowed disclose any of that list to the broader employee population.
May 21, 2013 at 8:46 PM
No that's called keeping the employees in the dark which is far worse than any time during UC's rules but is so bad under LLNS rule even the first line supervisors don't know who they are walking out the gate until some little girl from Akima shows up and says, "do you have boxes, you're leaving". Basically LLNS ULM keep the workers in the dark and feed them BS like a mushroom.
May 21, 2013 at 8:46 PM
Post the list and lets see who is leaving instead of keeping it a secret. It doesn't really make any difference to the operation of the lab since it's shrinking anyway and all the good jobs are gone, so who cares.
If employees self identify as taking the ssvsp it would circumvent the managerial blackout
Managers are not allowed to just willy nilly share employee action information with other employees. Assuring confidentiality was a prudent move. An employee that signs up early may feel uncomfortable if that information is transmitted over the lab. If an employee wants that information transmitted, he or she can do that himself. That is not management's job to do that.
I think the lab would also violate some privacy rules with regards to employee information by disseminating the list. Though just the total numbers should be fine. I can't see why management should be compelled to release numbers though. It's not like they promised up front to provide running tallies, like on a website with bell rings each time a new name is added to the list. Ding! Ding! Ding!
Anonymous said...
If employees self identify as taking the ssvsp it would circumvent the managerial blackout
May 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM
I think they are scared, of what I don't know. I'd be so happy if I was getting the hell otu of here I'd let the world know I was leaving and why. Can't wait until the door opens for me. FAOT
I think it is funny that the baby boom generation is so consumed with greed that they proved me right by arguing against my point....You baby boomers are the worst parents and generation (Note: I am sure there are good baby boomers...and I know a few....but not a lot.) Thank you for proving my point. Have fun with your money as I have to work ten times harder than you to clean up your mess. But at least I live in America.
I think it is funny that the baby boom generation is so consumed with greed...
May 22, 2013 at 7:29 AM
More than a little jealousy there. Getting what you are entitled to is greed? Easy to say when you find yourself in a position where you aren't (yet) entitled to anything. Grow up. Pay your dues.
Defending yourself by calling the other person names. = guilty = greedy
The facts are the greatest generation left the world a better place ( baby boomers parents)
The baby bloomer generation left the world in a worse place...this is not personal just facts... I thought parents should want more for their kids ... I guessed wrong ..
May 22, 2013 at 7:29 AM
May 22, 2013 at 9:54 AM
Get a grip. Learn the system and work within it. Baby Boomers were offered certain compensation for their work, and took it. It was a social and work CONTRACT. Many of us took less money to work at the Labs than we would have received in the private sector in the name of national needs and security, and were PROMISED certain compensation. That compensation is now DUE. (Of course, you are probably someone who would run out on contracts and other obligations like student loans, arguing that they weren't fair,that you are owed something). What's the matter, didn't you get enough "participation trophies" when you were a kid to validate your "specialness."
My 3 kids would argue with your assessment of their parents (maybe you hate yours). My 3 kids were sent through college by their "bad" BB parents, earned advanced degrees, developed SKILLS, have good, technical jobs, and turned out to be responsible, tax-paying and contributing members of society. They understand that things are different now then when their parents were in the work force, are not hung up over entitlements, understand the current system and are working well within it to live happy, comfortable lives and plan for a secure retirement.
Stop being an entitled whiner and get on with it. You'll have nobody else to blame but yourself if you have to work until you are 70. Anyone thinking that they can retire fine on ONLY Social Security checks has been delusional regardless of what generation they were from. ($1000 a month isn't going to get it done, unless you have a taste for dog food and crackers). I suggest you spend less time whining, more time working/earning/contributing, and save your money instead of spending it on lattes at Starbucks, video games/iphones, and $15 beers at the local brew pub. Heck, interest is at an all time low, real estate values have dropped, and now is the time to invest, instead of crying about everything.
Thanks for proving my point again. I do not have to say anything keep on talk
I do not have to say anything
May 22, 2013 at 12:21 PM
Thank God.
Whether or not the lab management keeps you in the dark about total numbers (intentionally or as required by policy or otherwise), it shouldn't matter to individual employees trying to make a decision of whether to take the package or not. You shouldn't take it just because you see others take it (unless you are really worried about the lab hitting the limit and you missing the boat). If you haven't figured out what decision you need to make that is best for you, having a look at total numbers isn't going to help you make a more informed decision. I suspect that some just want to see a large number to be able to "stick it" to the lab. I hate to break it to you... that's the last thing they are worried about.
May 22, 2013 at 2:51 PM
And we don't care neither cause right after these 425 leave Oct 1st is right around the corner where 500 more should be leaving under an ISP. Lets Get-R Done. They house should be cleaned out before Christmas.
Leaving after 28 years at the lab. I agree with others here that this place has seen much better days. Right now, an hour after the deadline to apply, my only real concern is that they'll reject my application (and I have good reasons for this concern). I signed up for the VSP within the first hour it was open and by the next day I had shared it with my supervisors, some of my closest colleagues, and managers. I want everyone to know that I want to leave, I figure I have better chances of being accepted that way. I'm an engineer, I'm in my mid 50's, I've lived frugally and maxed out on my contributions to retirement savings for years. I'm leaving a few years before I had planned and with less than 50% of my salary, but the thought of staying here a few more years is tormenting. Nonetheless, it's a leap of faith, but it's not totally wreckless, I have my retirement to support my decision. Besides, I'm still young and experienced enough that I may still be able to find a better job somewhere else, and if not I can always join Engineers w/o Frontiers or the Peace Corps, go do some good somewhere else. I still have much to contribute, but this place has become too rancid for me to be my best. If you are like me, I praise you for your decision. If you are staying behind I sincerely wish you the best.
And we don't care neither cause right after these 425 leave Oct 1st is right around the corner where 500 more should be leaving under an ISP. Lets Get-R Done. They house should be cleaned out before Christmas.
May 23, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Anyone this dumb should not be allowed access to a computer. Jeez, do you ever spell check or grammar check yourself? Do you know you come off as a stupid high school dropout? Is your hero in life really Larry the Cable Guy?
Is 425 the final number whom signed up as of 5 pm today? Fantastic!
I wish the best to you all.
And now I'll race you to the exit!
Ahole, did you find out which law prevents the IRS from uniformly applying greater scrutiny to all tax exempt status applications? I didn't think so, moron. How you call others stupid, I can't comprehend. You are the dumbest AH around. Moron. Get an education idiot.
May 23, 2013 at 9:09 PM
You might want to mention to whom you are referring.
Also in regards to May 23, 2013 at 9:09 PM:
Are you sure you are posting on the correct blog? The topic of this conversation is the SSVSP. Not the IRS, not aholes, not morons.
If you are not a LLNS Employee, you can't even answer the topic question. Stick to topic, and don't waste our time with your mindless rants.
There is only one poster here that "ahole, moron, idiot" refers to. He knows who he is, even though he pretends as if it could be someone else. Some pretty classic posts from him too, about abortion, tritium, plutonium, women. Typical livermoron.
Put spelling and grammar errors in your posts if you want to see him respond.
SSVSP. Exit interviews....STAND UP!!! Stand up my friends, stand up and tell the truth, for the truth shall set you free!!!
What goes around comes around LLNS, time to gird your loins!
Okay, what's the real number of people who signed up? Anyone have the facts? I'm hoping it between 425 and 599 that way no one will be told they can't go. That would be very demoralizing and not good for the employee or the company I'll assure you...
About 450 Happy campers signed up! This is fact.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
About 450 Happy campers signed up! This is fact.
May 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM
Very good. I was hoping for more but at least this prevent any more lay-offs for FY-13. Now we need to look at FY-14 where LLNS is already $80M short. I suspect between the $80M , 130 people suing the lab who will al get similar payouts as did the first five will result in additional shortfalls of about $70M and then comes sequestration and congress saying hell no we're not giving you a dime to save your ass. My guess is LLNS should be about $150M short for FY-14. That should result in another 500 people out the gate by Dec 25th 2013. Afterward they can relax until the next cut only 10 months away.
Whooo, all you young people should be saying thank you to everyone who took the SSVSP. They just saved you jobs for FY-14.
450 X $300,000 = $135,000,000
They just paid off FY-13 debt, the laws suits to come and all of FY-14
fiscal problems. If LLNS would just keep doing this every year for the next ten years the lab will finally be downsized to fit its future budgets. The sad new is this. It means there will be no ISP and for those who were waiting for this to happen so you could draw 24 months of unemployment, you're just SOL and missed the boat. Thanks to all those who took the SSVSP. I will forever be in debt to you.
May 25, 2013 at 7:18 AM
You seemed to have forgotten about one more bill Parney has to pay. He owes the TCP-1 pension plan $40M from last year and $80M this year so there goes $120 million of the $135 million he just saved by the SSVSP. I guess that'll keep the TCP-1 employee contributions to 5% instead of 7%. There is some good that came out of this but on that note we're back to shortfalls and an guaranteed ISP. Is there no winning here?
May 25, 2013 at 7:18 AM
Also, don't forget the half year's salary owed to the 450.
My bet is NNSA gave them this money to LLNS and it will not come out of the operational funds and for sure LLNS $82M for profit and party money they get for doing such a shit-hot job. Otherwise they'd have never put a cap of 600 people. You'll also see top mangers get big boners checks for this too.
That makes them "bonified."
How many people signed up for VSP? I heard 450. Is this the final number? Any idea?
Do not blame on Parney. He merely inherits the problems created by formal lab directors. Parney is well much better than the previous one. I hope from now on, LLNL is a better place to work than before.
when turning in my badge. I was told 399 took the ssvsp
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